Anyone done chip without exhaust?
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Matt76
Member
My D40 had 105kw at the wheels before the chip went on, yet to get it dynoed with it.
(All dynoes are different though so cant use it as a direct comparison.)
I reckon 70kw stock, 83kw on high.
(All dynoes are different though so cant use it as a direct comparison.)
I reckon 70kw stock, 83kw on high.
Deejay
Member
Hi Guys,
Back again! It has been a most interesting morning and I've learned bloody heaps of stuff about heaps of stuff. This is going to be a fairly lengthy post so settle in and grab a coffee, or a rum!
Firstly, the guys at Turbotech are sensational and provide a great service many thanks to Jeff and Nathan.
Here are the FACTS ....
We tested the Nav as a stock unit with chip and harness completely removed.
Maximum Power on average was 69.9kw (three runs which progressively produced weaker results as the turbo and engine temp rose. The torque was around 213Nm all measured at rear wheels of course.
Second run was with the DP chip set on mid settings, now keep in mind that the chip had been reprogrammed to high output from mid settings. The runs produced (from memory) around 72kw and can't recall the torque but would have been around 226Nm.
Final runs on the DP chip were on max setting and the rear wheels measured ~74.2kw and Torque was ~ 237Nm
After having tested the chip and found it to be lacking considerably behind the stated power increases by DP chip, I asked the guys if they would put their chip to the test, they agreed as they hadn't done the D22 CRD Dyno test on their chip. If it was better I was going to purchase it there and then and talk to DP about a refund.
Their chip plugged in and tested ~2kw above standard power or around 70.2kw and ~222Nm.
Upon second runs on the higher setting they produced almost 72kw and 228Nm. It is interesting to note that the torque curve for the Diesel power chip produced it's torque much earlier in the rev range and tapered pretty quickly from 3000rpm whereas the DP chip created peak torque at just before 3000.
At the end of the day, the reason I bought the ship was for overtaking of trucks fully loaded at highway speeds so I stuck with the DP chip. The Diesel power chip would suit a tradesman much better as the torque was much lower and would make the Nav drive heaps better at lower town speeds.
I paid for Turbotechs time and service and can't speak highly enough of their professionalism and customer service.
The discussion with the Dyno operator Nathan was interesting, he suggested that the latest model CRD engines are so sophisticated that despite the best efforts of chip manufacturers, the engine still ruled the roost. Ie, the figures dropped as the heat increased this was primarily due to the ECU sensing high turbo and engine temps, this lead to the ECU reducing fuel mixture as indicated on other pages on the Dyno. So, just adding more fuel doesn't increase the power, the engine decides how hot it will get and how much power it will produce, not the chip. I think this will be the same with all chips on these late model engines. Different story on the ZD30's and older engines. There was a serious drop in fuel/air mixture as heat and load increased.
He also mentioned that he had seen D40, stock pumping out around 75kw at the rear wheels, so I guess that was what I wanted in the first place, to be similar to D40 power.
On my way home, I got a call from a friend of a friend who does mufflers and exhausts and he wanted to have a look at the YD25 exhaust. He owns a Nad ZD30 ST-R a,d knows about the Dumps etc.
Bad news here, the Dump IS restrictive and it has an integral Cat. By removing the cat and dump, you WILL void warranty and that's game over, so no exhaust change for me. He wanted to replace the flange back for around $440, but the restriction in the highest pressure point and regardless how good the rest of the system is, the restriction is still there unless the restriction cumulatively is greater in the remainder of the exhaust, so I opted to forget about it.
The attached graphs show the stock run in Green, DP Chip in Red, Diesel Power chip in Magenta and then again at a higher setting in Black.
In summary, I'll be keeping my chip and am satisfied with the performance, but am pissed at the chasm between the results and the promises. I intend to speak to DP, but I don't know what I expect from that apart from self satisfaction of venting a bit.
I hope this has helped anyone reading this thread make a more informed decision as to what will be right for their particular situation.
I now open the floor to your comments,
Cheers,
DJ
Back again! It has been a most interesting morning and I've learned bloody heaps of stuff about heaps of stuff. This is going to be a fairly lengthy post so settle in and grab a coffee, or a rum!
Firstly, the guys at Turbotech are sensational and provide a great service many thanks to Jeff and Nathan.
Here are the FACTS ....
We tested the Nav as a stock unit with chip and harness completely removed.
Maximum Power on average was 69.9kw (three runs which progressively produced weaker results as the turbo and engine temp rose. The torque was around 213Nm all measured at rear wheels of course.
Second run was with the DP chip set on mid settings, now keep in mind that the chip had been reprogrammed to high output from mid settings. The runs produced (from memory) around 72kw and can't recall the torque but would have been around 226Nm.
Final runs on the DP chip were on max setting and the rear wheels measured ~74.2kw and Torque was ~ 237Nm
After having tested the chip and found it to be lacking considerably behind the stated power increases by DP chip, I asked the guys if they would put their chip to the test, they agreed as they hadn't done the D22 CRD Dyno test on their chip. If it was better I was going to purchase it there and then and talk to DP about a refund.
Their chip plugged in and tested ~2kw above standard power or around 70.2kw and ~222Nm.
Upon second runs on the higher setting they produced almost 72kw and 228Nm. It is interesting to note that the torque curve for the Diesel power chip produced it's torque much earlier in the rev range and tapered pretty quickly from 3000rpm whereas the DP chip created peak torque at just before 3000.
At the end of the day, the reason I bought the ship was for overtaking of trucks fully loaded at highway speeds so I stuck with the DP chip. The Diesel power chip would suit a tradesman much better as the torque was much lower and would make the Nav drive heaps better at lower town speeds.
I paid for Turbotechs time and service and can't speak highly enough of their professionalism and customer service.
The discussion with the Dyno operator Nathan was interesting, he suggested that the latest model CRD engines are so sophisticated that despite the best efforts of chip manufacturers, the engine still ruled the roost. Ie, the figures dropped as the heat increased this was primarily due to the ECU sensing high turbo and engine temps, this lead to the ECU reducing fuel mixture as indicated on other pages on the Dyno. So, just adding more fuel doesn't increase the power, the engine decides how hot it will get and how much power it will produce, not the chip. I think this will be the same with all chips on these late model engines. Different story on the ZD30's and older engines. There was a serious drop in fuel/air mixture as heat and load increased.
He also mentioned that he had seen D40, stock pumping out around 75kw at the rear wheels, so I guess that was what I wanted in the first place, to be similar to D40 power.
On my way home, I got a call from a friend of a friend who does mufflers and exhausts and he wanted to have a look at the YD25 exhaust. He owns a Nad ZD30 ST-R a,d knows about the Dumps etc.
Bad news here, the Dump IS restrictive and it has an integral Cat. By removing the cat and dump, you WILL void warranty and that's game over, so no exhaust change for me. He wanted to replace the flange back for around $440, but the restriction in the highest pressure point and regardless how good the rest of the system is, the restriction is still there unless the restriction cumulatively is greater in the remainder of the exhaust, so I opted to forget about it.
The attached graphs show the stock run in Green, DP Chip in Red, Diesel Power chip in Magenta and then again at a higher setting in Black.
In summary, I'll be keeping my chip and am satisfied with the performance, but am pissed at the chasm between the results and the promises. I intend to speak to DP, but I don't know what I expect from that apart from self satisfaction of venting a bit.
I hope this has helped anyone reading this thread make a more informed decision as to what will be right for their particular situation.
I now open the floor to your comments,
Cheers,
DJ
Last edited:
big orse
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4.3kw gain is pretty tragic and definitely not the 25% they quote. That must be annoying. 25% would be around a 17.5rwkw gain on your standard figures. I would be informing dp about their misleading advertising and let them know they should do something about it. Good on you for posting this info as you may save alot of guys wasting money for such a minor gain.
maddogrc
Member
so the stock 304nm advertised by nissan is crap and the 392nm stated by DP is not even CLOSE to the dyno figures!
the dp chip is advertised to have brilliant gains in power, but after seeing the charts today i dont think i'd consider buying one for the newer engine vehicles.
good work on getting all the details for us mate!
you have given a great deal of information to this community and we thankyou for it
the dp chip is advertised to have brilliant gains in power, but after seeing the charts today i dont think i'd consider buying one for the newer engine vehicles.
good work on getting all the details for us mate!
you have given a great deal of information to this community and we thankyou for it
i'll have to double check as i didn't think those engines had temp sensors in the manifold. they usually use air temp (pre turbo) or engine coolant temp.
if the dyno guys fans don't flow enough it will heat the motor up and the ecu could pull the fuel. also the engines fan will kick in which will suck some power.
I won't be getting a DP Chip.
With the DP Chip on max settings your 4.3 kW gain is about 6% increase (if the rough price for said chip is $1500 that equates to about $350 per kW gained), I believe I have a higher gain than that by putting in the 2 3/4" exhaust. I will have to look around for a dyno tester in the area so I can whack the truck on for a look.
Thanks for the info DJ, much appreciated.
With the DP Chip on max settings your 4.3 kW gain is about 6% increase (if the rough price for said chip is $1500 that equates to about $350 per kW gained), I believe I have a higher gain than that by putting in the 2 3/4" exhaust. I will have to look around for a dyno tester in the area so I can whack the truck on for a look.
Thanks for the info DJ, much appreciated.
Deejay
Member
Hey Maddogrc,
Well the graphs don't lie. There is certainly a small amount of ambiguity arguable between dyno tests if you were comparing specific kw and Nm readings, but the actual percentages shouldn't change between machines or weather or whatever.
Keep in mind that the test conditions for the dyno favoured bigger numbers because it was cold and wet which should by rights have produced more HP than say a warm summers day.
The tech on the Dyno said that all manufacturers engine output claims are pretty much total BS and that he wasn't at all surprised by the findings. He also mentioned it was pretty hard to get decent dyno readings on D40's because so many are autos and as soon as you plant the foot, they change down gears etc.
Like I said, I learned a lot by speaking with people more learned than me about these things.
I'll be quite interested in what DP Chip have to say about their figures when I ring them tomorrow. If I look at it optimistically, the 3000rpm range where I look for max power, there is a gain of about 6kw which is about an 8% increase in power, ther torque is up about 10% which, as you quite correctly point out, is a long way short of the 25% and 30% respectively they quote on their site.
I would think that constitutes grossly misleading the public and I think is against the law or at least extremely poor business and sales ethics.
Cheers,
DJ
Well the graphs don't lie. There is certainly a small amount of ambiguity arguable between dyno tests if you were comparing specific kw and Nm readings, but the actual percentages shouldn't change between machines or weather or whatever.
Keep in mind that the test conditions for the dyno favoured bigger numbers because it was cold and wet which should by rights have produced more HP than say a warm summers day.
The tech on the Dyno said that all manufacturers engine output claims are pretty much total BS and that he wasn't at all surprised by the findings. He also mentioned it was pretty hard to get decent dyno readings on D40's because so many are autos and as soon as you plant the foot, they change down gears etc.
Like I said, I learned a lot by speaking with people more learned than me about these things.
I'll be quite interested in what DP Chip have to say about their figures when I ring them tomorrow. If I look at it optimistically, the 3000rpm range where I look for max power, there is a gain of about 6kw which is about an 8% increase in power, ther torque is up about 10% which, as you quite correctly point out, is a long way short of the 25% and 30% respectively they quote on their site.
I would think that constitutes grossly misleading the public and I think is against the law or at least extremely poor business and sales ethics.
Cheers,
DJ
D
Dave
Guest
so the stock 304nm advertised by nissan is crap and the 392nm stated by DP is not even CLOSE to the dyno figures!
the dp chip is advertised to have brilliant gains in power, but after seeing the charts today i dont think i'd consider buying one for the newer engine vehicles.
good work on getting all the details for us mate!
you have given a great deal of information to this community and we thankyou for it
Dont forget, the figure's Nissan give will be on a engine dyno.
Dave.
Leprechaun
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Results look good too me.
An 8% increase is pretty good, I wonder if you'll use 8% more fuel too??
An 8% increase is pretty good, I wonder if you'll use 8% more fuel too??
Last edited:
Deejay
Member
Hey Big orse,
I think fuel economy will be more influenced by how much power you choose to put down onto the road.
I find I drive with less pedal with the chip wound up, so perhaps it is using less fuel???? Dunno! I haven't done a full tank on either setting. Certainly if you put the foot into it, you'll use it, but it does make you smile.
Cheers,
DJ
I think fuel economy will be more influenced by how much power you choose to put down onto the road.
I find I drive with less pedal with the chip wound up, so perhaps it is using less fuel???? Dunno! I haven't done a full tank on either setting. Certainly if you put the foot into it, you'll use it, but it does make you smile.
Cheers,
DJ
big orse
Member
- Joined
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Hey Big orse,
I think fuel economy will be more influenced by how much power you choose to put down onto the road.
I find I drive with less pedal with the chip wound up, so perhaps it is using less fuel???? Dunno! I haven't done a full tank on either setting. Certainly if you put the foot into it, you'll use it, but it does make you smile.
Cheers,
DJ
I don't worry too much about fuel consumption as much like you I would rather smile. If you didn't have warranty, I would say put gas on it, dump pipe and full exhaust and then you will really smile.
maddogrc
Member
i know that, but i was only expecting a smallish amount of power lost through the transmission, not nearly 100nm!
according to DP the increase should still be the same, as in you gain 28kw on an engine dyno you should still see that 28kw transfer onto the rwkw results.
or am i forgetting some area where there is a over 20kw loss leading to the small kw gain shown here?
Deejay
Member
Hi Guys,
Am still trying to get in touch with Mr DP Chip to chat about the Dyno results. I've called twice now and keep getting promises that they'll call back tomorrow .... I feel like my cheque's "in the mail".
They say they tried to call me but I have voice mail and have had no missed calls unless their number is silent. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and hope to get some answers tomorrow.
Nav is going well and this tank's fuel consumption is looking promising despite 14 runs on the dyno thrashing the guts out of it for over an hour
To quote X-Files Agent Mulder; "The truth is out there"
DJ
Am still trying to get in touch with Mr DP Chip to chat about the Dyno results. I've called twice now and keep getting promises that they'll call back tomorrow .... I feel like my cheque's "in the mail".
They say they tried to call me but I have voice mail and have had no missed calls unless their number is silent. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and hope to get some answers tomorrow.
Nav is going well and this tank's fuel consumption is looking promising despite 14 runs on the dyno thrashing the guts out of it for over an hour
To quote X-Files Agent Mulder; "The truth is out there"
DJ
Deejay
Member
Hi guys,
DJ here, the stupid hot potato. It seems my cheque isn't in the mail, the guy in question is out of the country in the Phillipines and wont be back for a couple of weeks. FFS!
Again, I'm told I will be contacted tomorrow with some information. This will be the final time I hear this as I'm now getting pissed off. My next move is to involve consumer affairs if I don't get some answers.
FFS! Grrrrrrr
DJ
DJ here, the stupid hot potato. It seems my cheque isn't in the mail, the guy in question is out of the country in the Phillipines and wont be back for a couple of weeks. FFS!
Again, I'm told I will be contacted tomorrow with some information. This will be the final time I hear this as I'm now getting pissed off. My next move is to involve consumer affairs if I don't get some answers.
FFS! Grrrrrrr
DJ
Matt76
Member
Mate that is pissweak customer service. It's stupid really, I wonder how many people have read this thread and will never buy one of their chips.....
It could have been solved so much earlier.
It could have been solved so much earlier.
Oh I am absolutely sold on that customer service, you bet.
It's almost as if they believe their business will continue without customers.
I say let them try! I'm not going to help.
It's almost as if they believe their business will continue without customers.
I say let them try! I'm not going to help.
Matt - VNET Pro
Member
They have lost my vote, probably might not of got one of them anyway but hey, this hasnt helped them one bit in my opinion.
