Workers blockade site...

[180degrees]

This post doesn't relate directly to the story.

I could be wrong but at the end of the day this kind of situation all comes down to money, if an Australian tradie will work work for no less than $50 an hour and a another man, an immigrant, nationality doesn't matter, is willing to work for $20 an hour and just as skilled who would you hire if you were in the shoes of the project manager? you could have 2.5x the productivity on the job and get it done faster, one things for sure alot of these immigrants show a willingness to work hard that you sometimes don't see in Australian workers. I think the labor market needs to change and become more flexible with what the industry is requiring and if say you are a chippy, its not something you need a university degree for, you need to realise there are others out there who may be just as skilled but don't have their heads in the clouds when it comes to pay. I say this because I talked to a chippy the other day and he told me he won't get out of bed for less than $50 an hour, I know not everyone is in the same boat but it puts things into perspective.

 

[d22dave]

This post doesn't relate directly to the story.

I could be wrong but at the end of the day this kind of situation all comes down to money, if an Australian tradie will work work for no less than $50 an hour and a another man, an immigrant, nationality doesn't matter, is willing to work for $20 an hour and just as skilled who would you hire if you were in the shoes of the project manager? you could have 2.5x the productivity on the job and get it done faster, one things for sure alot of these immigrants show a willingness to work hard that you sometimes don't see in Australian workers. I think the labor market needs to change and become more flexible with what the industry is requiring and if say you are a chippy, its not something you need a university degree for, you need to realise there are others out there who may be just as skilled but don't have their heads in the clouds when it comes to pay. I say this because I talked to a chippy the other day and he told me he won't get out of bed for less than $50 an hour, I know not everyone is in the same boat but it puts things into perspective.

I dont know what you do for a living but by your theory everyone could be undercut wage wise. And maybe we should hire a indian for PM, Probably only need to pay him or her 50k or less and at the end of the day they couldnt be any worse than any of the others. And maybe ANZ or WESTPAC should hire a phillipino ceo for 50k, Beats the 10 plus million they pay out now

 

[180degrees]

What I am trying to say is people need to come to terms with the fact jobs are not going to be given to them on a silver platter anymore in this country, nearly everyone is responsible for overseas labor being brought in, demanding higher and higher wages then at the same time demanding to pay less and less for everything and accepting a large proportion of cheap goods from the asia pacific region what do they think is going to happen... we aren't talking about cattle here though these are still people who come here to help sustain their own families and I bet nearly everyone here would do the same if the shoe was on the other foot, I don't condone it though just I am trying to look at the issue from every angle.

 

[d22dave]

i,m one of The lucky ones, i know no one is going to under cut me on my wage,

 

[Dave]

Chase the money Dave.

You only live once mate.

 

[KraftyPg]

i,m one of The lucky ones, i know no one is going to under cut me on my wage,

Yeah but it's not like you have any skills either

However if farm labour can't be under cut then why it is there are literally thousands of immigrant workers working on farms and orchards etc. Probably has something to do with some employers in such industries struggling to get local workers because of their ideas on what they are worth for such back breaking work that some migrants may not have.

In many cases it's back breaking work and while it may not be right to put other workers over locals if the locals think such back breaking work is beyond them or justifies such a large wage it's hardly surprising the path many employers choose.

 

[Krankin]

Yeah but it's not like you have any skills either

However if farm labour can't be under cut then why it is there are literally thousands of immigrant workers working on farms and orchards etc. Probably has something to do with some employers in such industries struggling to get local workers because of their ideas on what they are worth for such back breaking work that some migrants may not have.

In many cases it's back breaking work and while it may not be right to put other workers over locals if the locals think such back breaking work is beyond them or justifies such a large wage it's hardly surprising the path many employers choose.

if nobody here wants the work...then its up for grabs and dont whine later I say....

the fruit picking is flamin hard yakka, but it pays really well....personally if I could handle the outside/piping hot weather I'd do it myself as I have a lot of family that own orchards around Shepp.

 

[terryc]

What I am trying to say is people need to come to terms with the fact jobs are not going to be given to them on a silver platter anymore in this country.

They never fscking were.

 

[KraftyPg]

if nobody here wants the work...then its up for grabs and dont whine later I say....

the fruit picking is flamin hard yakka, but it pays really well....personally if I could handle the outside/piping hot weather I'd do it myself as I have a lot of family that own orchards around Shepp.

I don't really know what fruit picking pays, I've never looked into it but I know of atleast one strawberry farm in Vic that has nearly 80% migrant workers because so few aussies want to spent their day bent over in the hot summer sun picking strawberries.

But it's been going on for years, back 20 years ago when hay carting used to be square bales and thousands of them that had to be picked up and stacked by hand many farmers used back packers or migrants because they were the only ones willing to do the labour and work the long hours needed to get the job done.

In many cases we are our own worst enemies, we whinge about not doing certain jobs and we whinge because we don't get paid enough, then we whinge when companies can't afford to keep workers because they are paying staff more.

Top end wages of CEO's and dividends for share holders etc will always be a big part of cutting a workforce to save money but everything from worker redundancy to migrant workers to costs of living can easily be contributed to unions and workers constantly pushing to get more money for the job they do.

 

[nakedape]

... redundancy to migrant workers to costs of living can easily be contributed to unions and workers constantly pushing to get more money for the job they do.

There's a certain amount of truth in what you say - too many people living a champagne life-style etc - but there's also that bit of law that says that a ceo must put share-holders in front of all other concerns. Translated, that equates to exponential (profit) growth and thus the push towards cheap labour.

Upward pressure on wages also comes from our litigious society -- the chippy mentioned a few posts back that won't get out of bed for less than $50/h probably can't afford to: after all there is income protection insurance, liability insurance, workers comp, accountant that sorts the gst etc etc to pay before he eats.

We do have problems -- but none of them are going to be fixed by flying in workers (who then contribute little to our economy while here) while equally skilled and willing workers can't get jobs!

 

[KraftyPg]

There's a certain amount of truth in what you say

Oh Ye of little faith.....everything I say it the absolute truth because I said it and if you don't agree then you are wrong....it's just the way life is I'm not sorry about it.

I doubt anyone agrees that flying in migrant workers is the answer but the majority of Australians are also not the answer because of their attitudes.

 

[180degrees]

Nakedape: The chippy I mentioned didn't own a business, he was employed by numerous small business owners, just he wouldn't go out and work for them if they payed him less then that.

 

[KraftyPg]

The web industry is full of people who will tell prospective clients that anyone who puts in a price less than $3000 for a static website or offers less than $100 an hour is an Indian call center worker offloading work to another Indian computer bank.

The sad thing is that these dickheads actually convince more people than they should that web design has to be expensive and multiples of thousands must be handed over because cheaper costs means a less impressive website. But 90% of the shit they do once the site is designed is un-proven and easily twisted to make the client think their money is being spent wisely. Number 1 in google is a catch cry of so many companies yet means next to nothing in web marketing. Yet suggest these companies are ripping off their customers and they claim it's proper business ethic worth paying a high hourly rate for.

Want an inflated industry, want an industry where the workers think their title is what dictates their price, want an industry that if it wasn't for the gullibility of the general public would implode on itself, you don't have to look past the web industry. They wont be the only industry in the country doing it but it's no wonder international companies and migrant workers are under cutting us in so many areas when we sabotage ourselves the way we do.

 

[d22dave]

Yeah but it's not like you have any skills either

.

i do have a trade, i,m just not in it. And i have one big real skill, putting up with my bosses.

My bosses theory is if they paid me more i wouldnt do all the o/t they throw at me

 

[myoldhk]

Maybe citywest water didn't want the bullshit black listed workers from the desel plant, striking every five minutes.
I'm all for aussie workers, and rights but some stuff that union pulls is rubbish and affects more than just a few more bucks in the individuals hip pocket. IMO

 

[KraftyPg]

i do have a trade, i,m just not in it. And i have one big real skill, putting up with my bosses.

You're bosses all had a similar skill

My bosses theory is if they paid me more i wouldnt do all the o/t they throw at me

Your bosses theory could well be right.

some stuff that union pulls is rubbish and affects more than just a few more bucks in the individuals hip pocket. IMO

Unions have been one of the biggest issues of the Australian workforce for years.

 

[d22dave]

Maybe citywest water didn't want the bullshit black listed workers from the desel plant, striking every five minutes.
I'm all for aussie workers, and rights but some stuff that union pulls is rubbish and affects more than just a few more bucks in the individuals hip pocket. IMO

the desal plant workers milked it for all it was worth, And now the operators will milk victorians for all they can

 

[myoldhk]

the desal plant workers milked it for all it was worth, And now the operators will milk victorians for all they can

I totally agree but this white elephant will only be run by a handful of people (over played) as opposed to the multi millions lost with tax and rate payers having to pay back. Once again not just the individuals

 

[Dave]

Wasn't the desal a Labor idea ? On the recommendation of Tim Flannery.

He has been quiet as of late, apparently it was never gonna rain again and our dam's would be empty in 5 years.

 

[terryc]

<TIC> GEEEEESE , the country must be going gang busters. what with all you guys have all this time to come on here and whinge. Now if you really had to work, then you would all be too tired to bother </tic>.