petrol vs diesel
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Fuel economy for starters. Diesel fuel produces more energy than petrol, so the diesel engine will produce more power. As a result, you can have a smaller capacity motor that provides similar power. In the D40 range, as an example, the diesel gets around 10LPHK while the petrol gets around 15LPHK - that's 50% more fuel used to go the same distance.
If you're going to do water crossings, your petrol will fail as soon as water reaches the ignition circuit (meaning coil -> distributor -> sparkplugs). Diesels don't have spark plugs, so they are almost immune to this.
However, the diesels often have turbochargers. Turbochargers are expensive to replace and they can be very easily damaged if they aren't treated well. A sudden dunking while still super hot, or repeatedly switching the engine off while the turbo is still hot will quickly kill it. And without an intercooler, killing the turbocharger also kills the engine as the broken metal pieces enter the cylinders and are pressed into the working surfaces.
Another thing to consider is the availability of fuel. If you're buying this with the intention of visiting the outback, be aware that there are some places where you just can't get unleaded fuel.
Diesels also cost more to service. The oil you need to use in the crankcase needs to withstand the blow-by that diesels produce (in far greater amounts than petrol engines). The fuel filters are more expensive. Although there are no spark plugs to replace regularly, there are glow plugs that need to be checked and replaced (although a lot more rarely than spark plugs).
If you like the petrol model, are happy to pay the extra for fuel, aren't going to take the thing into the outback and want a quieter motor - do it.
If you're going to do water crossings, your petrol will fail as soon as water reaches the ignition circuit (meaning coil -> distributor -> sparkplugs). Diesels don't have spark plugs, so they are almost immune to this.
However, the diesels often have turbochargers. Turbochargers are expensive to replace and they can be very easily damaged if they aren't treated well. A sudden dunking while still super hot, or repeatedly switching the engine off while the turbo is still hot will quickly kill it. And without an intercooler, killing the turbocharger also kills the engine as the broken metal pieces enter the cylinders and are pressed into the working surfaces.
Another thing to consider is the availability of fuel. If you're buying this with the intention of visiting the outback, be aware that there are some places where you just can't get unleaded fuel.
Diesels also cost more to service. The oil you need to use in the crankcase needs to withstand the blow-by that diesels produce (in far greater amounts than petrol engines). The fuel filters are more expensive. Although there are no spark plugs to replace regularly, there are glow plugs that need to be checked and replaced (although a lot more rarely than spark plugs).
If you like the petrol model, are happy to pay the extra for fuel, aren't going to take the thing into the outback and want a quieter motor - do it.
bloodviper
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then there is what we where talking about to day that i run on
Aussie Frontier
Member
Dont forget you have to service a Diesel twice as much as a Petrol
Petrol every 10k and Diesel every 5k
I get between 12 and 13 litres per hundred in my V6 D40 and thats city driving.
Diesels are better for towing especially with an auto
Petrol every 10k and Diesel every 5k
I get between 12 and 13 litres per hundred in my V6 D40 and thats city driving.
Diesels are better for towing especially with an auto
There are biofuels, but if you have to adapt the vehicle to use biofuels, you need to stay near (within the range of the fuel you can carry) the source of those biofuels. If you go radically apart from standard fuels, enough to make the vehicle run poorly on those standard fuels, then venturing beyond your local neighbourhood becomes a difficult, if not impossible exercise.
And I should just add that the kind of fuel you were talking about is actually illegal to produce or use in that fashion without a license, so discussion should be kept to a minimum!
And I should just add that the kind of fuel you were talking about is actually illegal to produce or use in that fashion without a license, so discussion should be kept to a minimum!
bloodviper
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the use of veggie oil is not illegal there is a whole forum on bio fuels it is not so much the use of it it is thge way it is produced and obtained but people have been running on veg oil for years i hav done close to 400kms on it with out any problems and you can switch back to dino diesel any time i in the last few trips i have ran mixes of veg and dino diesel
but you can legally carry up to 200 ltr of veg oil with out a permit
but you can legally carry up to 200 ltr of veg oil with out a permit
raywise
Member
In the V6 this is the case as well, every 100 000k's for the platinum plugs fitted as standard. A LOT better than changing therm every 20 000k's like I used to in the Commodore,
joshman
Member
go diesel mate. fuel economy is awesome (i average 10.5L/100km). and if you stay with teh stock tyre size (265/70/r16) then the power uptake is fairly decent...
fit a snorkel and a sweet exhaust, and you're in business....
fit a snorkel and a sweet exhaust, and you're in business....
Aussie Frontier
Member
How much is diesel selling for these days?
When I was looking at buying my truck I did the maths on fuel costs vs economy and 4 years ago when I did the maths it was going to take 8 years average driving to actually cancel out the extra costs in buying a new diesel truck .
Petrol may cost more to run up front but at the end of the day its actually cheaper short term .When I did my math it was 20cents a litre dearer for diesel so even though you went further on a tank you paid more at the bowser.
When I was looking at buying my truck I did the maths on fuel costs vs economy and 4 years ago when I did the maths it was going to take 8 years average driving to actually cancel out the extra costs in buying a new diesel truck .
Petrol may cost more to run up front but at the end of the day its actually cheaper short term .When I did my math it was 20cents a litre dearer for diesel so even though you went further on a tank you paid more at the bowser.
There's nowhere near that much discrepancy now but your argument is still valid - there's a lot to be said for petrols. From a thermodynamic standpoint the diesel is superior, from the daily driver's standpoint the petrol is superior, from a longhaul towing standpoint the diesel is superior, from the accountant's standpoint the petrol is superior. Buying a diesel is often a personal preference thing.
It only takes a few questions to sort out what you want. These aren't gospel but may help you decide -
- Do you plan to keep the vehicle past the point where it exceeds 400,000km on the clock?
Yes - diesel. No - either.
- What percentage of the vehicle's kilometres will be driven with the vehicle carrying/towing a reasonable payload?
30%+ - diesel. 0-29% - either.
- Are you prepared to tolerate a short service interval (the inconvenience AND the cost)?
Yes - either. No - petrol.
I would suggest that the fact that you're even considering the petrol means you should seriously compare that vehicle on an even playing field with any diesel models you've looked at as though the engine were no factor. The VG33E is a sturdy motor, not great in the efficiency stakes but capable none the less.
K
KraftyPg
Guest
I did the same fuel comparisons when I brought my ute and although we all do different things which may not make one persons figures work for another my calculations were completely opposite. I can't remember all the figures but it was something like Diesel would have to be over 30 cents dearer per litre before the costs evened out.
I did the same calculations when I priced a long range tank and considering the cost and the only time I'd really need long range was across the Nullarbor every year it was still going to take me up to 5 years taking into account the average fuel difference between city and Nullarbor to come out even.
I did the same calculations when I priced a long range tank and considering the cost and the only time I'd really need long range was across the Nullarbor every year it was still going to take me up to 5 years taking into account the average fuel difference between city and Nullarbor to come out even.
bloke48
Member
Petrol versus diesel
These comparisons are simplistic. I had an STX petrol 4 x 2 and now an ST diesel 4 x 4. Fuel around town in the petrol was 12.3 litres per 100 km regular as clockwork over 4 years. Diesel is 10.3 litres per 100 km same trips. That makes diesel 16% cheaper than the petrol on a straight mileage comparison.
Over 18000 km per year (the dealer's national average and, as it happens, my own average) the petrol runs out at 2214 litres per year and the diesel 1854 litres, a difference of 360 litres. With diesel an average 9c per litre dearer (benchmark $1.24 for petrol and $1.33 for diesel) that's $2,745 per year for petrol and $2,465 per year for diesel, a difference of only $280.
The diesel is, however, $2,000 dearer to buy up front. Finance that difference at 10.25% and the difference reduces by $205 to $75! Then throw in two $280 services (5,000 and 15,000) for the diesel and you are $485 behind in the diesel.
...and we haven't looked at what a bad "fix" bill might be for the two cars.
As a "driver", the Nissan V6 beats the diesel hands down. For towing, once you get out of first, the diesel wins.
I have no idea (other than the general population's readiness to swallow all the bulls...) why the re-sale on the V6 is so poor.
If they still made them, I'd still be in a new V6 4 x 2.
These comparisons are simplistic. I had an STX petrol 4 x 2 and now an ST diesel 4 x 4. Fuel around town in the petrol was 12.3 litres per 100 km regular as clockwork over 4 years. Diesel is 10.3 litres per 100 km same trips. That makes diesel 16% cheaper than the petrol on a straight mileage comparison.
Over 18000 km per year (the dealer's national average and, as it happens, my own average) the petrol runs out at 2214 litres per year and the diesel 1854 litres, a difference of 360 litres. With diesel an average 9c per litre dearer (benchmark $1.24 for petrol and $1.33 for diesel) that's $2,745 per year for petrol and $2,465 per year for diesel, a difference of only $280.
The diesel is, however, $2,000 dearer to buy up front. Finance that difference at 10.25% and the difference reduces by $205 to $75! Then throw in two $280 services (5,000 and 15,000) for the diesel and you are $485 behind in the diesel.
...and we haven't looked at what a bad "fix" bill might be for the two cars.
As a "driver", the Nissan V6 beats the diesel hands down. For towing, once you get out of first, the diesel wins.
I have no idea (other than the general population's readiness to swallow all the bulls...) why the re-sale on the V6 is so poor.
If they still made them, I'd still be in a new V6 4 x 2.
joshman
Member
wow, you guys have weird fuel prices. petrol is on average a few cents DEARER than diesel...as is often the case around my part of brisbane... actually right now, my closest fuel station has petrol being 10c dearer than diesel...
over the last three months that i've had the diesel, i've noticed that the diesel price is alot more solid. compared to the petrol. the petrol price will jump all over the place, but the diesel stay nice and consistent. sometime petrol will be cheaper than diesel. but that is quite rare. at least in my part of town it is.
ok, i've done some math. based on my mates 3.3L petrol navara and my 3L diesel.
3.3L V6 Petrol - 15L/100km
3.0L Di - 10.5L/100km
current fuel price:
Diesel: $1.39/L
Petrol: $1.49/L
cost for 100km of travel:
Diesel: $14.60
Petrol: $22.35
yearly fuel cost based on 18,000km.
Diesel: $2,627
Petrol: $4,023
i daresay that diesel will quickly pay for themselves!
over the last three months that i've had the diesel, i've noticed that the diesel price is alot more solid. compared to the petrol. the petrol price will jump all over the place, but the diesel stay nice and consistent. sometime petrol will be cheaper than diesel. but that is quite rare. at least in my part of town it is.
ok, i've done some math. based on my mates 3.3L petrol navara and my 3L diesel.
3.3L V6 Petrol - 15L/100km
3.0L Di - 10.5L/100km
current fuel price:
Diesel: $1.39/L
Petrol: $1.49/L
cost for 100km of travel:
Diesel: $14.60
Petrol: $22.35
yearly fuel cost based on 18,000km.
Diesel: $2,627
Petrol: $4,023
i daresay that diesel will quickly pay for themselves!
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Aussie Frontier
Member
I am paying rougly $1.50 ($1.48 depending on the servo ) a litre for Optimax 95 and get roughly 700kms ( according to scanguage ) from 80 liters of fuel.
That equates to 16.8 cents per km on Optimax 95.Cant remember what i got on standard unleaded but from memory it wasnt as good and the engine certainly enjoys the higher octane fuel.I think Diesel was at least 20 cents a litre more expensive when I did my initial cals
so 18000 kms would cost $3024 in pure highway driving under perfect conditions
thats using this calculator
Metric Economy Calculator
Diesel fuel price at the moment $1.43
Unleaded Feul price at the moment $1.42
That equates to 16.8 cents per km on Optimax 95.Cant remember what i got on standard unleaded but from memory it wasnt as good and the engine certainly enjoys the higher octane fuel.I think Diesel was at least 20 cents a litre more expensive when I did my initial cals
so 18000 kms would cost $3024 in pure highway driving under perfect conditions
thats using this calculator
Metric Economy Calculator
Diesel fuel price at the moment $1.43
Unleaded Feul price at the moment $1.42
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joshman
Member
yeah, that economy calculator gave me the same value that my calcs gave me.
at this point in time, diesel is the way to go, not only does the oil burner use less fuel for the same trips, it also currently costs less per litre. (and the price is more stable than petrol)
we can go back and forth all day, but the numbers don't lie.
(that being said, the petrol will have a diesel off the line any-day of the week)
at this point in time, diesel is the way to go, not only does the oil burner use less fuel for the same trips, it also currently costs less per litre. (and the price is more stable than petrol)
we can go back and forth all day, but the numbers don't lie.
(that being said, the petrol will have a diesel off the line any-day of the week)
Aussie Frontier
Member
Dont get me wrong I totally agree with the figures
I was more saying that at the time when I was buying mine it was going to take 8 years to make up the initial sale price of the Diesel vs the Petrol
If I had been able to by a 4x2 in Diesel I certainly would have thats for sure.
But we do have to take into consideration the servicing costs
lets say for sake of the argument that servicing costs of the diesel is $300 every 5k and the petrol is $200 per 10k .
Can only guess at the costs of the diesel but on average a standard service on mine is $200
So as far as servicing for 20,000 it would be $400 for a petrol and $1200 for a diesel.
Am only saying that servicing costs do come into the equation as well.
I was more saying that at the time when I was buying mine it was going to take 8 years to make up the initial sale price of the Diesel vs the Petrol
If I had been able to by a 4x2 in Diesel I certainly would have thats for sure.
But we do have to take into consideration the servicing costs
lets say for sake of the argument that servicing costs of the diesel is $300 every 5k and the petrol is $200 per 10k .
Can only guess at the costs of the diesel but on average a standard service on mine is $200
So as far as servicing for 20,000 it would be $400 for a petrol and $1200 for a diesel.
Am only saying that servicing costs do come into the equation as well.
joshman
Member
ah yes...servicing costs. the ol' diesel does cost a bit more to service. the minor service's you can do yourself, as it's just a fluid and filter change, and a general inspection. a bit of knowledge will save alot of money. the same goes for the petrol engines.
in the end it's really each to their own. I'm a fan of the diesel and the better economy and the more stable fuel price are what really sold me on it.
and the turbo whistle. love the turbo whistle.
in the end it's really each to their own. I'm a fan of the diesel and the better economy and the more stable fuel price are what really sold me on it.
and the turbo whistle. love the turbo whistle.
Aussie Frontier
Member
If we had the same standards for fuel that the UK does then Diesel would be the only option. However the crap they can sell as Diesel in this country could screw up your fuel rails and pump without you even knowing.
Have heard of a few horror stories across the board about our crappy fuel standards.
That being said if I had to do it all over again I probably would have reworked the payments etc and gone a Diesel.
Have heard of a few horror stories across the board about our crappy fuel standards.
That being said if I had to do it all over again I probably would have reworked the payments etc and gone a Diesel.
joshman
Member
Yeah, i've heard the horror stories too, mostly about the stuff you get in the outback. the city stuff is pretty good.
but then i've also heard the horror stories about what some of the more...scrupulous... station owners cut their petrol with to make it last longer...
Aussie Frontier
Member
Very tue but rural fuel shall we say is basically anything but the main servos
the big difference is the V6 will run on just about anything although somewhat rough
The diesel could crap out big time
All comes down to certain bodies enjoying upping the tax but not ensuring we have decent standards
the big difference is the V6 will run on just about anything although somewhat rough
The diesel could crap out big time
All comes down to certain bodies enjoying upping the tax but not ensuring we have decent standards
