Hey guys im looking a getting the 240 blitz lightforce and found out that if you have them pertruding past your bull bar it's illegal. As they do on mine. have any of you been fined or heard of anyone getting fined before?
spotties pertruding the bull bar
- Thread starter Jordo D22
- Start date
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Aido
Member
Pictures might help in this case. or a description of how and where they are to be mounted.
Many legal Eagles here ready to point you towards current legislation documents in regards to this.
Many legal Eagles here ready to point you towards current legislation documents in regards to this.
There isn't just the issue of being fined. There's also the issue of, if involved in a motor vehicle collision, the blame for the collision being shifted to the vehicle that was not roadworthy. There's also the issue of the insurance company not coming to the party if they deem the vehicle unroadworthy, and they have that option (it's in your fine print, that you are responsible for ensuring the roadworthiness of the vehicle).
None of these are guaranteed to happen, they're all a risk. Whether that risk is acceptable to you or not is your choice.
None of these are guaranteed to happen, they're all a risk. Whether that risk is acceptable to you or not is your choice.
Aido
Member
240 blitz lightforce spotlights when fitted to a Nissan genuine bar on the main bar itself and not the top bar using brackets bet the 2 holes provided would be legal and within the guidelines set out for bullbar construction and accesory fitting.
Why? because.
1. you have not modified the bar in anyway
2. the bullbar and accessories follw the profile of the front of the vehicle
3. they do not present any sharp edges or protrusions
If however you were to mount them to the top bar using clamps then you have gone beyond what is legal.
Why? because.
1. you have not modified the bar in anyway
2. the bullbar and accessories follw the profile of the front of the vehicle
3. they do not present any sharp edges or protrusions
If however you were to mount them to the top bar using clamps then you have gone beyond what is legal.
A
ants_oz
Guest
I can't say that they are legal or not - that would be for a judge to decide... They protrude past the front of the barwork, so that would be an alarm bell in my opinion.
Why do companies like ARB go to such great lengths do ensure that their designs ensure that the lights they sell result in the light being INSIDE the line of the barwork....that the winch fairlead is INSIDE the line of the barwork....
Glad you'e confident of the matter Aido, because I'm not so certain either way.
Why do companies like ARB go to such great lengths do ensure that their designs ensure that the lights they sell result in the light being INSIDE the line of the barwork....that the winch fairlead is INSIDE the line of the barwork....
Glad you'e confident of the matter Aido, because I'm not so certain either way.
Aido
Member
Look what you have started Jordo!
It is grey definitely.
If you were to string a line from outer edge of the top tube to the leading edge of the bar then no light would comply - except mini lights from SCA 55w - and they are incredibly useless.
Nissan have provided a bar manufactured by ARB to meet Australian Design Rules and have provided 2 mounting holes for spotlights in the centre of the main bar. They are asymetrical and are 8-10mm (haven't measured them nor seen them for some time) in dia to accept the common mount of most aftermarket lights. Therefore there has not been any modification required to fit the accessory.
Once again when you fit something as large as 240 and string a line between the top bar and the leading edge of the main bar I would guess that less than half would protrude outside of the profile. For that area that does protrude then it comes back to what Tony said and does it present a risk? Are there sharp areas that will cause significant damage to a pedestrian? If the light is struck at that point by soft flesh then which will yield? the Pedestrian or the light?
I concur with your thoughts on rod holders ( especially because they are generally mounted on the nearside of a vehicle) and of lights held ont the top bar by hose clamps and fabricated brackets - hows about the winch horns!? But it comes down to acceptable risk like Tony eluded to. 2T of metal traveling at 60kmh with 60kg of solid metal hanging off the front is going to be more concern to any pedestrian than the top third of a set of polycarbonate driving lights.
It is grey definitely.
If you were to string a line from outer edge of the top tube to the leading edge of the bar then no light would comply - except mini lights from SCA 55w - and they are incredibly useless.
Nissan have provided a bar manufactured by ARB to meet Australian Design Rules and have provided 2 mounting holes for spotlights in the centre of the main bar. They are asymetrical and are 8-10mm (haven't measured them nor seen them for some time) in dia to accept the common mount of most aftermarket lights. Therefore there has not been any modification required to fit the accessory.
Once again when you fit something as large as 240 and string a line between the top bar and the leading edge of the main bar I would guess that less than half would protrude outside of the profile. For that area that does protrude then it comes back to what Tony said and does it present a risk? Are there sharp areas that will cause significant damage to a pedestrian? If the light is struck at that point by soft flesh then which will yield? the Pedestrian or the light?
I concur with your thoughts on rod holders ( especially because they are generally mounted on the nearside of a vehicle) and of lights held ont the top bar by hose clamps and fabricated brackets - hows about the winch horns!? But it comes down to acceptable risk like Tony eluded to. 2T of metal traveling at 60kmh with 60kg of solid metal hanging off the front is going to be more concern to any pedestrian than the top third of a set of polycarbonate driving lights.
Aido
Member
IPF's fitted to the standard Nissan Bar as manufactured by ARB would protrude beyond the profile of the bar.
Don't ever think that ARB are the Mesiah of all things Legal and best in 4wd.
I have a post coming up this weekend that will definitely have you on side for adding accessories and acceptable modifications from the almighty.
A
ants_oz
Guest
I don't know who makes the Nissan bar.....I've heard lots of rumours over the years.....
When viewed from the side, the IPF lights on my ARB bar do not protrude at all beyond the front face of the bar. There is some of the top surface of the light that protrudes forward of the top tube of the bar, however that is legal according to ADR's, and the light can flex backwards when struck (as described above). I can't say what the situation is with a Nissan or other design bar - I don't own one.
I don't claim that they (ARB) are anything other than a company trying to make a profit mate.
But show me one product they sell which is illegal against Australian legislation when fitted ACCORDING TO THEIR SPECIFICATION. I am sure that you would find the factory would offer a recall if they found your information to be correct.
I am also certain that would never find an example of a FACTORY ARB outlet fitting equipment in a manner other than that specified, where fitment would breach roadworthiness legislation. It's not worth the reputation of such a company - of course if you have example or evidence to the contrary, here's your chance to post it.
And best? What is this reference to "best in 4wd" that you make? Surely whether something is "best" is an opinion, not a definitive statement...very much a muddy area...not something that I recall bringing up anyway. I'll leave any definitions of "best" up to you as that is very much a personal matter and subject to "fit for purpose". What may be "best" for one person may not necessarily be best for another person.
Interestingly, TJM were pushing lightforce lights for a while - not sure if they still are. Anyway, a bunch of TJM bars were released with centre top tubes that were mounted comparatively high, and with light mounting holes fairly close together and further back than you would expect....mainly to accommodate the requirements of the "240" size lightforce lights and to keep them within the overall bar profile.
Mount a set of the 240 size lightforce lights on most bars (using the standard holes) and the majority of the light body protrudes beyond the front face of the bar. That, in my humble opinion, would (or should) cause a problem with the law. The front face of the bar is where (according to my understanding) nothing should protrude without good cause. Also, according to my understanding, such fitment may occur, however may only remain in place for as long as required to perform the task required. That does not include obviously permanent fixtures such as driving lights...
Please don't talk in riddles about up and coming posts
Whatever it is you have to post, I'm sure it will make interesting reading.
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I haven't purchased any yet as going to try and stay fairly legal, i sure dont dont need to be in $$$$$$$$ in debt because one stupid thing makes me unroadworthy and insurance won't cover. i messured it up and the 240's pertrude the front bar about 35mm on the factory steel nissan.
Thanks heaps for all your help, you all pretty much know your stuff. I had a look this morning on the QLD transport sight (not sure on laws outside QLD) and read up.
"Lighting systems
All additional lighting systems are to be fitted strictly in
accordance with Queensland legislation. Some additional
requirements are explained below.
Additional pairs of headlights, showing a beam of white
light only, may be fitted and must not affect the driver’s
view. The headlights must be mounted symmetrically.
Additional high beam headlights must extinguish
automatically when low beam is selected.
A pair of fog lights, showing a beam of white or yellow
light, may be fitted to the front of a motor vehicle with
the centres no higher than the top of the dipped beam
headlight. The lights must be mounted symmetrically not
less than 600mm apart.
Fog lights must be capable of being switched on and off
independently of any headlights but must only be able
to be switched on when the parking lights are on. Fog
lights must not be used except in fog or mist or under
other atmospheric conditions which restrict visibility.
Blue lights are not allowed on any vehicles except
emergency vehicles (for example police, fire and rescue,
and ambulance). Red lights and reflectors must face to
the rear. White lights and reflectors must face forward.
Yellow lights are not permitted except for clearance
lights on goods vehicles and buses, and indicators and
fog lights on all vehicles.
With the exception of indicators, flashing lights are not
permitted on any vehicle, except special vehicles for use
in hazardous situations (for example tow trucks) and
emergency vehicles (for example police).
Vehicle accessories
and equipment
It is the owner’s responsibility to ensure all accessories
and equipment attached to a motor vehicle are designed
and fitted in a manner which reduces the risk of injury
to pedestrians and other road users making contact with
the vehicle when the vehicle is parked or in motion.
Driving lights/brackets must not protrude forward from
the front face of any bumper or above the top of any
bull bar.
Not
As old tony mentiond before about unroadworthiness, I dont know if i wana risk that chance even if the crash isn't my fault. Thanks again heaps guys great help. propably go a set of the 170 as the are smaller. i think they may still sit out by 5mm though.
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Jon
Member
I've got some 240 blitz's in the mail, will post pics of them installed on my genuine Nissan alloy bar. Every single brand name light will protrude a little bit because of the design of the bar, there is mounting holes in the bar for a reason and I intend to use them. Cheers.
That would be great Jon thanks, although i think it would be legal on yours because I am fairly certain that the alloy bars stick out slightly more because they have those little black plastic things that stick out from the bull bar on the two inner pillars while there is nothing on the steel bar.
shaggy
Member
Hi Fella's
I have IPF spotties on a Nissan factory bullbar and they dont protrude past the front of the bullbar.As to to people get fined for things that go past the front of the bullbar well that is up the boys in blue.Having said that i know of a few guys who have be warned about there fishing rod holders on the front of the vehicle.Most have been told remove them or be fined.
Shane
I have IPF spotties on a Nissan factory bullbar and they dont protrude past the front of the bullbar.As to to people get fined for things that go past the front of the bullbar well that is up the boys in blue.Having said that i know of a few guys who have be warned about there fishing rod holders on the front of the vehicle.Most have been told remove them or be fined.
Shane
Interesting fact from Qld - "Driving lights/brackets must not protrude forward from the front face of any bumper or above the top of any
bull bar."
Can this be interpreted to mean that nothing can protrude forward from a bumber, but for a bull bar it's only prohobited above? Legal interpretation can be a play on words.
What about aerials mounted above the bullbar?
I have the 240 blitz on a Nissan steel bar. Pics attached.
And no, I don't need anyone to tell me that they are illegal. I have put them up so Jordo D22 can see how they look.
I had the 170's prior to the 240's. They too stick out - not by much. I have attached best pic I have of them also.
Good luck Jordo.
Cheers.
bull bar."
Can this be interpreted to mean that nothing can protrude forward from a bumber, but for a bull bar it's only prohobited above? Legal interpretation can be a play on words.
What about aerials mounted above the bullbar?
I have the 240 blitz on a Nissan steel bar. Pics attached.
And no, I don't need anyone to tell me that they are illegal. I have put them up so Jordo D22 can see how they look.
I had the 170's prior to the 240's. They too stick out - not by much. I have attached best pic I have of them also.
Good luck Jordo.
Cheers.
Attachments
Aido
Member
"Technically" illegal.
I looked at mine today and they are flush with vertical.
Thanks for the pics Ridgie.
Oh and as per the ebay thing that went around a few years ago with people photographing reflective objects and doing it in the nude, I'm glad you didn't cause geeze your as ugly as me!
I looked at mine today and they are flush with vertical.
Thanks for the pics Ridgie.
Oh and as per the ebay thing that went around a few years ago with people photographing reflective objects and doing it in the nude, I'm glad you didn't cause geeze your as ugly as me!
Aido
Member
Damn! dont ever put you and me in front of a roaring fire and an esky full of beer! We could argue all night and then arrive at the same conclusion stating in the best inebriated slurs "tharst wot I meant"I don't know who makes the Nissan bar.....I've heard lots of rumours over the years.....
When viewed from the side, the IPF lights on my ARB bar do not protrude at all beyond the front face of the bar. There is some of the top surface of the light that protrudes forward of the top tube of the bar, however that is legal according to ADR's, and the light can flex backwards when struck (as described above). I can't say what the situation is with a Nissan or other design bar - I don't own one.
I don't claim that they (ARB) are anything other than a company trying to make a profit mate.
But show me one product they sell which is illegal against Australian legislation when fitted ACCORDING TO THEIR SPECIFICATION. I am sure that you would find the factory would offer a recall if they found your information to be correct.
I am also certain that would never find an example of a FACTORY ARB outlet fitting equipment in a manner other than that specified, where fitment would breach roadworthiness legislation. It's not worth the reputation of such a company - of course if you have example or evidence to the contrary, here's your chance to post it.
And best? What is this reference to "best in 4wd" that you make? Surely whether something is "best" is an opinion, not a definitive statement...very much a muddy area...not something that I recall bringing up anyway. I'll leave any definitions of "best" up to you as that is very much a personal matter and subject to "fit for purpose". What may be "best" for one person may not necessarily be best for another person.
Interestingly, TJM were pushing lightforce lights for a while - not sure if they still are. Anyway, a bunch of TJM bars were released with centre top tubes that were mounted comparatively high, and with light mounting holes fairly close together and further back than you would expect....mainly to accommodate the requirements of the "240" size lightforce lights and to keep them within the overall bar profile.
Mount a set of the 240 size lightforce lights on most bars (using the standard holes) and the majority of the light body protrudes beyond the front face of the bar. That, in my humble opinion, would (or should) cause a problem with the law. The front face of the bar is where (according to my understanding) nothing should protrude without good cause. Also, according to my understanding, such fitment may occur, however may only remain in place for as long as required to perform the task required. That does not include obviously permanent fixtures such as driving lights...
Please don't talk in riddles about up and coming posts
Post is coming tonight now that some of my chores are finished. And yes even this will get your hackles up.
Aido
Member
But show me one product they sell which is illegal against Australian legislation when fitted ACCORDING TO THEIR SPECIFICATION. I am sure that you would find the factory would offer a recall if they found your information to be correct.
I am also certain that would never find an example of a FACTORY ARB outlet fitting equipment in a manner other than that specified, where fitment would breach roadworthiness legislation. It's not worth the reputation of such a company - of course if you have example or evidence to the contrary, here's your chance to post it.
Please don't talk in riddles about up and coming posts
Here you go.
Would you grind out clearance in your control arms to fit their shock absorbers? http://www.navara.asia/d22-suspension-steering/3446-arb-nitrocharger-sports-shock-absorbers-front.html
And I see you did my job by highlighting ACCORDING TO THEIR SPECIFICATION.
A
ants_oz
Guest
Damn! dont ever put you and me in front of a roaring fire and an esky full of beer! We could argue all night and then arrive at the same conclusion stating in the best inebriated slurs "tharst wot I meant"
Post is coming tonight now that some of my chores are finished. And yes even this will get your hackles up.
I love a good debate
Not about hackles though mate, and please don't think for a moment I'm upset or being nasty etc - it's not what I'm about for a moment.But yeah, sitting around a fire talking things through is awesome
