Using a battery isolator as a Voltage Switch

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Ok here is something that we thought of at work today
I want to be able to run a few things like strobes, air compressor, running lights etc but have them set so they will only run when the engine is running. I realise I could do this by just switching them on when its running. I was thinking about using a battery isolator like the Redarc SBI12 but running the load through the relay. That way the compressor for instance would only run once the battery voltage goes above the threshold voltage.
Eventually I will run in a second battery and connect everything to .

Now if my theory is correct and you lot dont think I am a raving loon what isolator to get?
Redarc SBI12 $88
Projecta VSR100 $79
Matson MA98404 $77
and the list goes on and on
 
That's a good idea. Even if the voltage is higher than that to begin with, as soon as the load ramps up the voltage will fall away if the alternator isn't working.

There is a line you can tap into that is only active if the engine is actually turning over - I think it's the oil pressure sender (connect to relay, turns on power).
 
I was thinking of going off the sense line from the alternator so no spin is 0v but spin is above 12v but thats going to get messy.
I just figured the isolator idea was an easy way out and means all I need later one is just to mount a second battery and I will be all set
 
Not saying it's a good idea - it's a great idea. The only thing I'd be concerned about is how much current you're going to draw.

The alternator has a 140A fusible link, so you can't expect to draw more than that from the alternator no matter what. The diesel's alternator puts out "less than 145A" at "more than 3,400rpm" and the petrol puts out "less than 120A" at "more than 3,100rpm".

If you draw more than the 120A (keeping in mind that you are flogging the engine to do this when standing still) then the load on the battery will cause the battery voltage to fall below the isolator's threshold and will turn the thing off.

So, what you going to run from this (in terms of power) ?
 
The DRL are going to be SFA being LED and the compressor is 17A max so in reality maybe 20A at this stage .I am curious as to how much power will go to a second battery if I go that way. I want to run Anderson plugs both front and rear so can plug in a set of jumper leads without draining my battery and also not having to lift the bonnet.
I am thinking that once the second battery is charged it wont get run that flat so maybe 20/30 amp charge type deal
 
That sounds fine. You might need to raise the idle level a little now and again if that load is constant. The table of outputs for the petrol engine shows it should put out 35A at 1300rpm and 70A at 1800rpm.

Watch the second battery's charge rate. AGMs can handle a high charge rate but gels certainly can't and normal DC & SLI batteries can't handle too much more than C/6 (so a 100Ah battery should not be charged at more than 16A). If it were a DC I'd probably not want to exceed 10A going in and if it is a Gel I'd go to 7-8A charge rate.
 
Ok thats all good but how can I stop the second battery charge current going too high.I would be happy to keep the charge at maybe an amp or two as the battery wont be used on a regular basis so can basically be like a trickle charge .
I really couldnt see myself having to jump start numerous cars.
I hopefully would never require the second battery to be directly connected the main battery. If the main battery went flat for whatever reason I would actually jumper myself so to speak. That way I wouldnt have to run heavy leads between the batteries, only the charge lead .
 
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Ok thats all good but how can I stop the second battery charge current going too high.I would be happy to keep the charge at maybe an amp or two as the battery wont be used on a regular basis so can basically be like a trickle charge .
I really couldnt see myself having to jump start numerous cars.
I hopefully would never require the second battery to be directly connected the main battery. If the main battery went flat for whatever reason I would actually jumper myself so to speak. That way I wouldnt have to run heavy leads between the batteries, only the charge lead .

Re your second battery charge rate, depending on what type of battery you end up with, this, Redarc BCDC1206 3 Stage Battery Charger should do the trick.

Father in law recently tried to do what you are proposing running a Caravan fridge (15 amp load constant) from a voltage sensing relay on primary battery to fridge in van, he has 6mm twin cables all the way, but I think the voltage drop was too high and fridge would not run, so check that the wiring to the items is capable of load required.

As your voltage drops, the amps required to run the item increases, a fridge that draws 15 amp at 13.7 volt will draw 17.125 @ 12v and 18.65 @11 volt

it does not sound like much, but an extra few amps here can really knock you about on LONG runs.

If your second battery is going to be mounted in the rear tray area, run large cables, high quality with SOLDERED joints, not crimped, ensure all is clean and tight, then use a dedicated charger to charge, trying to charge a second battery with a voltage sense relay does not really work.

The voltage sense relay onlt joins the two batteries together, so if one battery has a bad cell, the other battery will never get a proper charge, the alternator will just put out the power as asked for by the regulator, it doesnt care where it goes, if you are running two matched batteries, same type, CCA capacity, in the same condition and age, they can work, but once one battery starts to die, the system will fail.

If you try to run a deep cycle for Aux and a lead acid for main, these batteries require a different charge rate and voltage, they dont like being hooked together, so a dedicated charger is required.

It would be possible with a dual pole voltage sense relay, that switched between batteries, not charging both at the same time to run two different battery capacities anf charge from your alternator, but only one battery can be charged at a time, the voltage sense relay will ensure your main battery is full before switching to the other.

I had a manual set-up of the above run through two 100amp constant load/300 peak load, 100% duty cycle relays, feed from alternator went to both relays, the seperate output from each relay then when to a diffrent battery.
a twin volts gauge (two voltages displayed at all times) and a 3 pos switch with slave relays switched the other relays in as desired, I will try and attach a drawing of the above, it sounds complicated, but works very well.

You can choose which battery get charged, keep an eye on voltage of both, you could setup lights to warn you of a low battery voltage (idiot light) if you like, it depends on what you want your Auxiliary battery to do, winch? fridge? lights??? then you can work out what charge rate you will need to give it as a max and set up your system to suit.
 
^ good advice.

I do things differently but that's because I'm a contrary old bastard. I take the incoming voltage and invert it immediately, drive a 4-stage charger to charge the battery and that's it. Electrically isolated, the aux battery cannot impact on the starter in any way at all (there's a ignition-on relay that provides juice to the cable) so even if one cell goes off in the aux battery there's no drama up front.

My solution is a little more expensive, because I have to have an electrically isolated inverter (note1) and a multistage battery charger (note2) to drive it. It has the advantage of being cheaper to replace or upgrade a faulty component and I can use it to supply low-moderate demand 240V devices as well, which I couldn't do with an isolator or a DC-DC charging solution.

Note1: some inverters don't actually isolate the negative line and instead use that as a common between the 12V side and the 240V side, choosing to drive the voltage up through the transformer on the positive rail only. This means that a fault developing in the 240V device can cause tremendous problems with anything connected to the negative - and that includes the body of the vehicle! An electrically isolated inverter drives both positive AND negative inputs through transformers so that there's no direct path for the electricity to follow back. To explain it a little more - the way to invert power is to apply power to a coil around a ferrous object which creates a magnetic field for a moment. You have a big bunch of coils also attached to that magnet which (ignoring losses for the moment) takes the same power (volts times amps) of the input and produces a higher voltage with the same power. Example: 12V 40A going in (12*40=480W) becomes 240V 2A going out. A bunch of circuitry turns that off and on to keep the magnetic field in flux and smoothing out the curve into an approximation of a sine wave (hence "modified sine wave") as well as keeping the output near the intended 240V.

Note 2: multistage battery chargers are designed to properly charge a battery, rather than just dump power in and hope for the best. They push in the power when the battery can handle it and taper it off as the battery fills, so that the battery isn't damaged by the charger. They perform better when there is no load attached (as loads will affect the sensed voltage). Cheaper chargers will kill the battery if they aren't removed - Gel batteries in particular, as pockets of bubbles form in the gel and that makes for discontinuity. Remember the gel is supposed to be an ionic solution conductor (which it is, with some silicate added to make it form a gel). It won't conduct with bubbles in it, so that's why gels are so fragile when being charged.

Enough mumbo jumbo!
 
Nah tis all good I understood it all.Basically what your doing is essentially a 12volt UPS but your doing things in reverse.
Where a normal UPS takes the 240V and inverts that to a lower voltage and then puts that to the batteries. From there it goes back through an invertor and bumps it back to 240.
I have weighed up all the differant options and am going to actually go a different route for now. Jaycar has a voltage switch. I will use one of those on the control side of the compressor so its low current.Ill connect the voltage switch to a relay to switch a "engine running" relay so it will supply 12v to DRL and the control side of the compressor.
It means in total I will need 1 voltage switch, 1 smaller load control relay and a 20 amp relay for the comrpessor.Total cost with the relays I already have will be under $40
 
Well the Jaycar unit is adjustable so can dictate the low voltage and bandwidth so I can litterally set it to 14v if I want to .I will more than likely run it at 13.5 volts .A little creative wiring and we are good to go.
My poor old centre console is getting very full of electronics lol
So far I have a wig wag unit to flash the driving lights alternatively as well as function as driving lights, all the relays and controls ,timers etc for the hard cover actuator and now this .
 
Well I put the Jaycar unit together and it works but am just not happy with the way its so sensative. Add the fact its a kit and so not really too reliable and I have decided it may be not the best solution.
I am going to go with Projecta brand battery isolator. The Redarc unit isnt easy to mount with such open terminals etc. The Projecta unit will do exactly the same thing but is easier to mount and will still do the same job.
 
Before you spend a lot of cash, just watch that the voltage isn't falling away because of the load itself and that's what is triggering the Jaycar unit. It's possible that the isolators will do the same thing.
 
I was trying the Jaycar unit and it wasnt reliable as far as the trigger voltage was going. I didnt even have any load on it and it wouldnt reliably switch at 13 volts every time. It would go 13.5 or 12.5 depending on how it felt type thing. I just thought that after all said and done a commercial unit would be far more robust and reliable .
I got the Projecta unit with 2 years warranty for $64 delivered. It will act exactly the same way and just energise on a set voltage.If I want to test etc I can manually overide it anyway.
 
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