Hi stig51 here .I'm confused they are declassified the pickup from a commercial to a private car.

[Stig51]

So if this is true which it is in July why can't I transfer my English plates to Spanish plates because the reason was because it was commercial ?? doesn't make any sense ???

 

[landmannnn]

I've not heard of declassification of pickups apart from the US. Which country are you talking about?

 

[Stig51]

Hi.yes the article I was referring to is in Spain . they are declassifing pickups on the 5th of July to private vehicle s

 

[landmannnn]

Importing vehicles to Spain is tricky, you might get a better answer on one of the Spain expat forums.

 

[GunMentalGrey]

Different parts of the world treat it differently. Here in Australia ‘pickups’ or utes have drum rear brakes to get a commercial vehicle tax break.

Some vehicles are classified as 4wd which allows more modification for suspension and wheel size. Some 4wd SUVs were imported under passenger vehicle classification and weren’t allowed to lift suspension or add bigger wheels to sit off road usage without full engineering reports done.

 

[Boogieboots]

Different parts of the world treat it differently. Here in Australia ‘pickups’ or utes have drum rear brakes to get a commercial vehicle tax break.

Some vehicles are classified as 4wd which allows more modification for suspension and wheel size. Some 4wd SUVs were imported under passenger vehicle classification and weren’t allowed to lift suspension or add bigger wheels to sit off road usage without full engineering reports done.

So that is it?
We were talking about it at work recently and after some fruitless searches online the most common thought was price. Plenty of people saying drums are better because of more friction area, but why on utes and not the wagon variants?
Makes some sense now

 

[tweak'e]

So that is it?
We were talking about it at work recently and after some fruitless searches online the most common thought was price. Plenty of people saying drums are better because of more friction area, but why on utes and not the wagon variants?
Makes some sense now

not really.
remember our utes are all made for other countries. downunder is a tiny market.

simply put, drums are worse in almost every aspect apart from use as a hand brake. the reason they are still used is most braking is done at the front. drums are cheap and a cheap way to do a handbrake. plus it works well when you have a lot of load that the wagon version will never have.

 

[pol327]

To say that drum brakes 'are worse in every respect' is incorrect. There are pros and cons to everything.

Drum brakes provide more braking force than an equal diameter disc brake arrangement, drum brakes have a built in self energizing effect that requires less force input (less hydraulic pressure) for greater braking effect.
A few reasons for still using them is that the rear brakes generally do only 20-30% of the braking therefore drum brakes then generate lower heat. They do not overly suffer from fade on the rear.
Drum brakes wear much slower than disc brakes, therefore they last longer and the shoes can be relined. Also the wheel cylinders can be re-sealed.
Another positive is that the park brake can the be operated manually as an emergency brake. Try doing that with a rear disc brake. Also the park brake is way more effective than the tiny park brake shoes inside the rear rotors.

Most utes and dual cabs have load compensating valves, this further reduces the braking to the rear when unloaded, when a load is applied more pressure goes to the rear drums (brakes) which have a larger effective braking surface area and in theory under normal braking conditions the vehicle will brake more effectively.

ANY brake system will fade out as it gets hot that is simply a fact. Always drive according to road conditions and the load being towed. Riding any vehicles brakes down an decline or otherwise is a recipe for disaster.

True that drum brakes are cheaper to produce, heavy braking can cause the drum to distort, they are more complex than disc brakes for maintenance and have more of an issue when flooded with water as they do not wipe or shed water as good as discs, however 'worse in every respect' I do not think so.

 

[Boogieboots]

Crap, now this thread is turning into all the others that I have read
POL327, Tweake did say in almost every aspect, not all.
Tweake, I agree Australia is a small market but so is the RHD market. I know my D22 was made in Japan so that is sort of moot. They could just bung every other one on a boat to Oz I guess.

So would my Nav be better with rear discs? And are they the difference between being a commercial vehicle or not? I don't think Dunnydoor utes have drums and plenty of tradies use them (or used too) but I can see that being due to our small market

Sorry bout this

 

[tweak'e]

So would my Nav be better with rear discs? And are they the difference between being a commercial vehicle or not?

i think the drums are fine for utes.
if you had a 250kw 3 litre diesel and drove down the autobahn at 200kmh, then rear discs might be a good upgrade (and most of the suspension as well).

commercial vehicle? thats down to your guys rules.
over the ditch here in NZ afaik its simply down to weight. so yank tanks are commercial vehicles, require different more costly inspection, tax etc

 

[tweak'e]

To say that drum brakes 'are worse in every respect' is incorrect. There are pros and cons to everything.

Drum brakes provide more braking force than an equal diameter disc brake arrangement, drum brakes have a built in self energizing effect that requires less force input (less hydraulic pressure) for greater braking effect.
A few reasons for still using them is that the rear brakes generally do only 20-30% of the braking therefore drum brakes then generate lower heat. They do not overly suffer from fade on the rear.
Drum brakes wear much slower than disc brakes, therefore they last longer and the shoes can be relined. Also the wheel cylinders can be re-sealed.
Another positive is that the park brake can the be operated manually as an emergency brake. Try doing that with a rear disc brake. Also the park brake is way more effective than the tiny park brake shoes inside the rear rotors.

Most utes and dual cabs have load compensating valves, this further reduces the braking to the rear when unloaded, when a load is applied more pressure goes to the rear drums (brakes) which have a larger effective braking surface area and in theory under normal braking conditions the vehicle will brake more effectively.

ANY brake system will fade out as it gets hot that is simply a fact. Always drive according to road conditions and the load being towed. Riding any vehicles brakes down an decline or otherwise is a recipe for disaster.

True that drum brakes are cheaper to produce, heavy braking can cause the drum to distort, they are more complex than disc brakes for maintenance and have more of an issue when flooded with water as they do not wipe or shed water as good as discs, however 'worse in every respect' I do not think so.

drums are worse in almost every aspect

the simple big problem with drums is lack of cooling leading to brake fade. also they tend to be 'soft' braking.
even big rig trucks are now disc braked.

as far as performance goes, discs beats drums and has done so since the 60's.
we only use drums on trailers because they are cheap but require more maintenance.
i assume drums have lasted so long on trucks due to the air braking system as drums work with a whole lot less pressure than discs.

 

[Boogieboots]

i think the drums are fine for utes.
if you had a 250kw 3 litre diesel and drove down the autobahn at 200kmh, then rear discs might be a good upgrade (and most of the suspension as well).

commercial vehicle? thats down to your guys rules.
over the ditch here in NZ afaik its simply down to weight. so yank tanks are commercial vehicles, require different more costly inspection, tax etc

Roger that!
Spend the money on working the donk! That has been my overriding instinct
If I had money that is