2030 electric only in the maybe nowhere near anything ready and in my opinion well get put back A lot of development on carbon neutral e fuels that might well be the answer A former student of mine who works for Volvo Trucks tells me he has been told electric is not the future end game is ICE Hydrogen Governents always pander to minority group crackpots here in UK
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That's possible, particularly here in Australia where power lines run over vast distances - if they all need upgrading, there's gonna be a lot of Teslas sitting on the side of the road with those little hand-crank generator torches wired into the car ... here ya go Cheryl, it's your 10 minutes on the crank.
I'm not quite there with hydrogen on a moving vehicle. In a home or business environment I can see it happening, mostly because the building isn't drunkenly swerving its way down the highway and ignoring red lights & stop signs.
But puncture a hydrogen tank in an accident and the Ford Pinto will look like your dream car.
I agree we could be using more neutral fuels. They use E85 (85% ethanol) at the race track and there are SOME cars on Australian roads that can use it, but not many service stations supplying it.
Biodiesel is available but comes from a variety of sources (cooking oil, farmed tallow, rapeseed oil) and the car dealers seem to enjoy telling tales about the service department pulling stale fish and chips out of the fuel filters (which we KNOW can't happen, but scares enough people into sticking with dinosaur juice).
The highest bio% in Australia in diesel is 20%, most places can have up to 5% without telling customers. When the fear of "filling our filters with fish and chips" has subsided we might actually be able to increase that to 100%. I've used 20% biodiesel and it was the best load of fuel I've ever had.
Is that you at 21s Tony?
Otherwise if it is lady later in the vid I feel I have been misled by my typical stereotype led brain, and I apologise
Or you are not as old as you let on
And now I will stfu before I embarrass myself further
My wife is from Oberon and I visited for the first time this winter and met her childhood friends. We have committed to coming over again (from WA) to go to Bathurst but are not sure about the big race or the 12 hour. I favour the 12 hour as I like the variety of competing vehicles. What are your thoughts mate?
Otherwise if it is lady later in the vid I feel I have been misled by my typical stereotype led brain, and I apologise
Or you are not as old as you let on
And now I will stfu before I embarrass myself further
My wife is from Oberon and I visited for the first time this winter and met her childhood friends. We have committed to coming over again (from WA) to go to Bathurst but are not sure about the big race or the 12 hour. I favour the 12 hour as I like the variety of competing vehicles. What are your thoughts mate?
Well I guess it will depend on whether it is cheaper to build hydrogen tank storage outlets everywhere, and that will mean Shell, BP etc stumping up. Personally, in Australia where most people will be able to recharge at home I think electric will be be most successful, for cars at least
Hydrogen fuel cells will probably have their place though
Is that you at 21s Tony?
Otherwise if it is lady later in the vid I feel I have been misled by my typical stereotype led brain, and I apologise
Or you are not as old as you let on
And now I will stfu before I embarrass myself further
My wife is from Oberon and I visited for the first time this winter and met her childhood friends. We have committed to coming over again (from WA) to go to Bathurst but are not sure about the big race or the 12 hour. I favour the 12 hour as I like the variety of competing vehicles. What are your thoughts mate?
The 12 Hour is a fantastic event. The cars are all real cars - okay, I might explain that for some people who might not know.
Supercars are like Nascars. They aren't production cars - they are not manufactured by Holden or GM or Ford or Nissan. The chassis is identical between all of the vehicles, as is the drive train ... ok, how about I let them explain it?
The 12 Hour is made from mostly cars that are manufactured by their brand manufacturer for street use and purchased by the teams then modified for racing (roll cages, racing seats, uprated driver restraints, fire suppression systems etc).
They've assigned me to pit lane again for this event, and most likely I'll be at the Exit (my usual place, and that's a hint about the vid too). If you are camping there in the lower campground near Mountain Straight Gate - MSG, I'll actually be camped not far from you (officials are camped on the north (downhill) side of the road from MSG). From that campground, you can walk down towards turn 1 and there's a small section of grass that spectators can stand that's about 5 metres away from the people at Pit Exit - where I'll likely be. Won't know for certain until I'm there though.
And no, I haven't been to Thailand, so I'm not the lady later in the vid. She's a good friend of mine though.
Serious question for you all, are there any Hybrid diesels?
I remember watching an in-depth break down of the most efficient cars when it came to pollution from end to end, as in manufacturing to driving.
Hybrid is the clear winner, it is more efficient and less damaging than all electric.
I remember watching an in-depth break down of the most efficient cars when it came to pollution from end to end, as in manufacturing to driving.
Hybrid is the clear winner, it is more efficient and less damaging than all electric.
I've never heard of one. It would make sense because of the greater efficiency of the engine's use of fuel, but diesels are noisier, heavier and need a lot more power to start them. The manufacturer has to figure which way to balance that, and some of them may have chosen diesel.
It would make even more sense if those diesels were built from the ground up to use 100% biodiesel.
It would make even more sense if those diesels were built from the ground up to use 100% biodiesel.
Dream on about bio fuels/ethanol being more environmentally friendly than diesel/petrol. It takes more than a litre of oil to make a litre of bio fuel when u add up the growing/transport/refining. It’s all spin for people who don’t know or not interested in researching the facts.
Even electric transport is wasteful. A third of all electricity in the grid is lost to transmission.
Even electric transport is wasteful. A third of all electricity in the grid is lost to transmission.
There are some hybrid diesels Merc Pug over here in the UK We may well see more of them as time goes by and I personally hybrid is the way forward as stated earlier in the thread
Seems like this all electric hard push is more about the politics on oil rather than the environment.
You're correct..people forget and most dont understand the term " entire life circle " costs...electric are a distaster at the moment
It's highly likely that it is part of the equation.
But with tighter emission specs each year, and an attempt to move people away from burning fossil fuels for energy production, electric is an obvious logical step.
Do I think the move is good? For sure. A considerable amount of that energy is wasted anyway (consider an idling engine - what's it doing apart from keeping the aircon going?). Electric has max torque all the way from 0 revs, and most of our vehicles may never need gearboxes.
There's a lot of simplication in the vehicle itself, but we aren't talking about a new technology.
landmannnn
Member
It will be interesting in 12 years time when many countries are planning to ban the sale of any car that emits CO2.
Where will the electricity come from? Not nuclear as a reactor takes 25 years to build. Not coal, already not allowed
in those countries . Not gas (a gas power station can be built quickly) as that will put everyone under control of Russia. Not wind farms, millions of turbines would be needed, likewise with solar.
I don't think hydrogen is the answer, still needing vast amounts of electricity to be created.
What will happen in my opinion is that some countries will enforce the 2035 zero CO2, places like Norway or California. Others will delay the implementation, probably for decades.
Where will the electricity come from? Not nuclear as a reactor takes 25 years to build. Not coal, already not allowed
in those countries . Not gas (a gas power station can be built quickly) as that will put everyone under control of Russia. Not wind farms, millions of turbines would be needed, likewise with solar.
I don't think hydrogen is the answer, still needing vast amounts of electricity to be created.
What will happen in my opinion is that some countries will enforce the 2035 zero CO2, places like Norway or California. Others will delay the implementation, probably for decades.
Countries like Australia do have significant gas reserves and could convert coal-fired power stations to gas. I don't think there's a political will to do that over here though.
They are building solar farms though - and not at a slow rate. What's immediately needed is not so much the actual power generation, but power storage to provide energy during the night.
Once EVs become mainstream the ball game will change again, because electrical demands will rise beyond current capacity. I'd imagine that won't be a small gap either. We have a new(ish) solar plant at Nyngan that produces something just over 100megawatts, and another plant out Broken Hill way (a bit south of the town) which is about half that capacity (but has room for expansion).
One problem in Australia is power transmission. A lot of outback areas utilise a transmission method called "single wire earth return" but these can't cover high loads. If you have a small community of, say, 10 houses and they're fed by a 25kVa system, once they all get electric cars they will find they're unable to charge them at the same time day or night.
Rooftop solar can alleviate this to a degree but unless people put up more than they need, future demand won't be satisfied and they'll need to rely on grid power.
They are building solar farms though - and not at a slow rate. What's immediately needed is not so much the actual power generation, but power storage to provide energy during the night.
Once EVs become mainstream the ball game will change again, because electrical demands will rise beyond current capacity. I'd imagine that won't be a small gap either. We have a new(ish) solar plant at Nyngan that produces something just over 100megawatts, and another plant out Broken Hill way (a bit south of the town) which is about half that capacity (but has room for expansion).
One problem in Australia is power transmission. A lot of outback areas utilise a transmission method called "single wire earth return" but these can't cover high loads. If you have a small community of, say, 10 houses and they're fed by a 25kVa system, once they all get electric cars they will find they're unable to charge them at the same time day or night.
Rooftop solar can alleviate this to a degree but unless people put up more than they need, future demand won't be satisfied and they'll need to rely on grid power.
I know a fair bit is lost in transmission but I think a third is a bit high. But if you have roof mounted solar the loss between your panels and battery is minimal. Providing of course you are able to charge at home. But otherwise all the power you generate is available to you without the loss
Biofuels are great when they are reused as a byproduct. But otherwise you are bang on. Unless there is some big advances in algal oil production. And for the same area, pv solar will probably still win
It will be interesting to see who is making the ice cars in the future. There will be second hand vehicles getting around for a long time. I am still driving my D22 after 17 odd years.
China will probably keep banging them out for a while if they are still part of the global economy in 10 years and if we want to support them.
Investment in our electrical infrastructure to support EVs is one of the best things we can do for our balance of payments given we import over 80% of our transport fuels. We can easily produce all of our electricity requirements at home now, and could easily cover future electrification.
But it will probably be easier to keep sending our cash to Singapore, Indonesia and the Middle East or wherever our fuel comes from now
And we import all of our vehicles now so it doesn't matter if they are ice or ev. EVs probably support our minerals industries more. And if we had the investment and workforce we could value add to those a lot more in this country
Yeah, I'm dreamin!
China will probably keep banging them out for a while if they are still part of the global economy in 10 years and if we want to support them.
Investment in our electrical infrastructure to support EVs is one of the best things we can do for our balance of payments given we import over 80% of our transport fuels. We can easily produce all of our electricity requirements at home now, and could easily cover future electrification.
But it will probably be easier to keep sending our cash to Singapore, Indonesia and the Middle East or wherever our fuel comes from now
And we import all of our vehicles now so it doesn't matter if they are ice or ev. EVs probably support our minerals industries more. And if we had the investment and workforce we could value add to those a lot more in this country
Yeah, I'm dreamin!
annnnd here is the problem.
I have a solid Solar Setup at home, house is almost off-grid every day when the sun is up, same as 3/4's of my neighbours. As soon as the sun goes down we are all sipping that sweet grid juice.
Imagine now every 2nd house having an electric car and all doing an overnight charge.
I have contemplated battery packs many times, but every time I do the maths over a 5-7 year period I would barely break even vs not having a battery pack.
I use 5-7 years to get a rough calculation vs the lifespan of the battery pack.
Check out the 2025 Hilux.. it looks absolutely stunning and will be a Hybrid Diesel - Toyota has the right idea as usual.
The math doesn't add up but the tech is really early and there are some people that just want to be independent. The price of these things will drop slowly, just like the prices are falling with LiFePO4 batteries.
The better deal (than Tesla Powerwall) is the Lavo 40kWh hydrogen battery for about $35,000. That's a ton of money to outlay though, all so you can be "disconnected", but you could run a modest home on that for almost 3 days, and would only need 2 of them to keep a small EV charged.
The big thing about being connected - if you've sized your system right - is that you can save yourself the connection fee, which for us here is about $1.43 per day. That adds up but not enough to pay for the battery. For 365 days = 521.95, and so 10 years makes it just over $5,000. The battery won't pay itself off for 70 years!
You can't win trying to remain connected and recover the connection fee with solar power credits either. Our provider was paying 11c/kW. On our last bill we generated 718kWh for which we received $79.70 credit and our connection fee was $130.13. For our next bill the gap will be greater as the rate has dropped to $0.07/kW!
AGL...
I signed up to their 'Solar Savers' plan back when it was 20c per KW... then it dropped to 12c kw.. now it's 12c for the first 40kw then 5c after that.
Playing my cards right and having all lighting as LED for example, my last quarterly power bill came in at +$6.40 (credit).
Problem is that I still have my cooktop as Gas and we cook 90% of meals on the outdoor kitchen/bbq which is also gas.. then my water heater is an instantaneous gas heater too.
The Gas bill is now creeping up these days.
I've come to the point of accepting that I'll never win.
To AGL's credit, I bundled the mobile phone + NBN with them and the deal is very decent, especially with 20 off the NBN for the first 12 months and then $10 off per month for the life of me sticking with them.
Being able to pump that excess generation into a car battery is the best option. In my case as a shift worker I would be able to charge over night shift and hopefully hold enough for my days. Then charge on my days off. I work 5 days, 5 off, 5 nights, 5 off (sort of, sportsman roster if you know what that is)
50km round trip to work should mean I would never need to pay for fuel except for taking the Nav away.
So should I keep the D22 and get a new EV worth 80k or buy a new diesel 4x4 for 80k?
I have a soft spot for my D22
50km round trip to work should mean I would never need to pay for fuel except for taking the Nav away.
So should I keep the D22 and get a new EV worth 80k or buy a new diesel 4x4 for 80k?
I have a soft spot for my D22
