Fuel Injection Problems

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Andyjo

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Thx for your input, this is proving to be a painful and costly experience! I'll look into the pump idea.
 

Been a while

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Thx for your input, this is proving to be a painful and costly experience! I'll look into the pump idea.
Definitely grab the EcuTalk or a scan gauge, buy the manual on the disc or download it and get to readinggggg, and I mean reading. It's a maze and it goes on for ever ;) you'll thank the good souls here as most know the pages numbers you'll need..

There is no Paper or should I say, Printed manual for the zd but there may be for yours!
Sorry, there is a Nissan Mechanic's Printed Manual for the zd and the D22 and the D40 series, you will not believe the price from Nissan! With all the amendments $ go on guess !
Try Hames, they may do one for yours! There are other print houses that do manuals too..
The manual on the disc has diagnostic pages also, you never know what you may work out with a bit of a read, plus it's a good thing to know your rig..

Don't stress mate, there's no shortage of intellectual beings here and I'm always close by with the penetrative lubricants, she will run agAin...
 

Been a while

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Has anyone pulled the fuel pickup from the tank and checked it for debris/wax/algae?
Yeah good point, clears itself! But the white smoke, I don't know diesels but I'd be thinking if it's starving for fuel,,, would there be the white puff?

That algae is funny stuff too, I've never seen anything like it!
If you've ever dealt with it you could see it "swamping" the pick up and floating away... it's weird stuff, it's like oil and water and the Algae just floats and clings to everything until your filters show signs..

Pop the filter off and have a look... syphon a bit from the tank and test/look "you'll see it".
Try dropping the "feed" line at the filter primer, then pressurising the tank and check FLOW, rock the ute whilst checking flow and fuel for THE Bug! - you may have something wrong with the tank pick up?

Anyway, no penetrative lubricating substances needed here so ill bid you all a good day gents, good day :)
 

Adhaul

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Hate to say this but the V6 diesel injection system is a bloody nightmare, simply too much unnecessary stuff on it and the egr system just sucks- After lots of drama mine is running perfectly and it’s for sale- I’ve replaced it with an Amarok which will be replaced before the warranty runs out 🤣🤣
 

YCJCYASATB

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Hi Andyjo.

I have just been having a read through this post. I don’t have a Nav, but a Pathy with the same engine.
As soon as you have mentioned white smoke, this has told me unburnt fuel. When it’s missing when started, have you tried disconnecting an injector plug, 1 at a time to see if the problem gets worse or if there isn’t any change? This could then isolate which injector is playing up. Which could either be mechanical or electrical. Reading about the problem being intermittent, I am leaning towards an electrical issue. There could be a bad connection with one of the connectors, it might not be connected correctly. Could be an issue with pins or a potential cable worn through which touches a metal part at times causing issues with the firing signal.
These things may have been checked already, but just thought I would ask. I come from the KISS principle. My Diesel engine experience(Medium & Slow) is telling me an injection issue.

Regards, Evan.
 

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Hi Andyjo.

I have just been having a read through this post. I don’t have a Nav, but a Pathy with the same engine.
As soon as you have mentioned white smoke, this has told me unburnt fuel. When it’s missing when started, have you tried disconnecting an injector plug, 1 at a time to see if the problem gets worse or if there isn’t any change? This could then isolate which injector is playing up. Which could either be mechanical or electrical. Reading about the problem being intermittent, I am leaning towards an electrical issue. There could be a bad connection with one of the connectors, it might not be connected correctly. Could be an issue with pins or a potential cable worn through which touches a metal part at times causing issues with the firing signal.
These things may have been checked already, but just thought I would ask. I come from the KISS principle. My Diesel engine experience(Medium & Slow) is telling me an injection issue.

Regards, Evan.
LOL, continuity check time, yukkkkk!
 

Andyjo

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Thx guys, its now in the hands of the diesel doctors. Hopefully they can identify the problem. At $1000 a pop (nissan quote!!) I'm hoping it's not the injectors....
 

Andyjo

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Still no joy, Nissan could find no reason for the problem and the injection garage that currently has the vehicle have also been unable to find any issues. They removed and tested the injectors and they were all found to be good, so they are not the source of the issue (thankfully at a grand a pop!!). Has anybody found intermittent issues with the ECU? I'm getting desperate here and grabbing at straws; the engine starts and idles with no issue and sometimes even revs past 1100 rpm with no issue but put it in gear and it hunts and misses badly. Whatever the cause, it seems to be deteriorating as it no longer clears readily so the car is now pretty much undrivable as the problem can occur anytime. The garage said that it did throw a tranny code the other day and were going to explore that as a potential source of the problem, I don't know the code number, should have asked them. I've asked them to explore the potential air leak from the bleeder cap, other than that everybody seems to be out of ideas which is very frustrating. Any fresh ideas are very welcome.

To recap, from cold, engine starts instantly and normally will idle evenly with no probs. Attempt to rev the motor and it struggles to rev past 1100 rpm, missing and coughing badly plus copious quantities of white smoke. Previously, messing with the throttle to get it past the 1100 rpm would eventually see the problem clear and the car would drive without any issues. Now once it clears it'll rev easily past 1100 with a slight miss apparent as it passes through 1100 rpm but revs out fine; put it into drive though and it gets ugly, misses badly and doesn't want to accelerate at all. All professionals that have looked at it have been unable to find any problems at all??
 

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Still no joy, Nissan could find no reason for the problem and the injection garage that currently has the vehicle have also been unable to find any issues. They removed and tested the injectors and they were all found to be good, so they are not the source of the issue (thankfully at a grand a pop!!). Has anybody found intermittent issues with the ECU? I'm getting desperate here and grabbing at straws; the engine starts and idles with no issue and sometimes even revs past 1100 rpm with no issue but put it in gear and it hunts and misses badly. Whatever the cause, it seems to be deteriorating as it no longer clears readily so the car is now pretty much undrivable as the problem can occur anytime. The garage said that it did throw a tranny code the other day and were going to explore that as a potential source of the problem, I don't know the code number, should have asked them. I've asked them to explore the potential air leak from the bleeder cap, other than that everybody seems to be out of ideas which is very frustrating. Any fresh ideas are very welcome.

To recap, from cold, engine starts instantly and normally will idle evenly with no probs. Attempt to rev the motor and it struggles to rev past 1100 rpm, missing and coughing badly plus copious quantities of white smoke. Previously, messing with the throttle to get it past the 1100 rpm would eventually see the problem clear and the car would drive without any issues. Now once it clears it'll rev easily past 1100 with a slight miss apparent as it passes through 1100 rpm but revs out fine; put it into drive though and it gets ugly, misses badly and doesn't want to accelerate at all. All professionals that have looked at it have been unable to find any problems at all??
Howdy man, i had an early d21 that skipped a tooth on the timing. .. the computers can equate for it and it would idle but not rev past certain limit under load. ...
Just a thought. . Check your timing maybe....

The other thought i had was some form of control coming from the auto trans fn things up. .. you said it was an auto yes?

I know the manual 4x4 have a neutral position switch on the gear bag that when it goes does funny things. ..

Look on the manual for those types of switches and what they actually do and not do when they fail...

I wonder if its some kind of "Electronic advance/retarding" set up on the timing that's fn up...

Yup, I'd be checking timing and where no: 1 piston is sitting when you align the timing marks...

Tweak is the one for these, the boy has a gift ;)
 

Been a while

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Still no joy, Nissan could find no reason for the problem and the injection garage that currently has the vehicle have also been unable to find any issues. They removed and tested the injectors and they were all found to be good, so they are not the source of the issue (thankfully at a grand a pop!!). Has anybody found intermittent issues with the ECU? I'm getting desperate here and grabbing at straws; the engine starts and idles with no issue and sometimes even revs past 1100 rpm with no issue but put it in gear and it hunts and misses badly. Whatever the cause, it seems to be deteriorating as it no longer clears readily so the car is now pretty much undrivable as the problem can occur anytime. The garage said that it did throw a tranny code the other day and were going to explore that as a potential source of the problem, I don't know the code number, should have asked them. I've asked them to explore the potential air leak from the bleeder cap, other than that everybody seems to be out of ideas which is very frustrating. Any fresh ideas are very welcome.

To recap, from cold, engine starts instantly and normally will idle evenly with no probs. Attempt to rev the motor and it struggles to rev past 1100 rpm, missing and coughing badly plus copious quantities of white smoke. Previously, messing with the throttle to get it past the 1100 rpm would eventually see the problem clear and the car would drive without any issues. Now once it clears it'll rev easily past 1100 with a slight miss apparent as it passes through 1100 rpm but revs out fine; put it into drive though and it gets ugly, misses badly and doesn't want to accelerate at all. All professionals that have looked at it have been unable to find any problems at all??
Shame, i have a spare ecu, but for the D22ZD ..

Speak to the mechanic and ask him about timing.. you could be right, ecu is fn with the timing and fueling. .. or slipped a tooth, rare but it can and does happen...
my d21 did it twice before I replaced the timing chain etc wasnt that loud either. .. not like it was just hanging there, the guides where fine and that's why it wasn't noisy, just stretched and jumped a tooth. . . KA24e motors, though little motors for the day..
Turbo those suckers, my god... i kid you not, they have a power band and they rev lol right up until they pop, no limiters on those girls eh...

I don't know about diesels, but do they have a timing light that conects to the ecu or something..
If not, rocker cover off and glow plug out on no: 1 pot my man...I'd be checking timing just to wipe it off your list. .

Keep fighting bloke, no machine will beat us all ;)
 

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Oh, another thing, if it is an auto - they don't have any vacume lines going too and from do they???
It's not selecting a to tall a gear and labouring it or something crazy..
Got me, but I'd be heading for timing and writing that off the table next .. all the basics first, fuel, compression, air in etc then timing, ecu etc
 

YCJCYASATB

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Still no joy, Nissan could find no reason for the problem and the injection garage that currently has the vehicle have also been unable to find any issues. They removed and tested the injectors and they were all found to be good, so they are not the source of the issue (thankfully at a grand a pop!!). Has anybody found intermittent issues with the ECU? I'm getting desperate here and grabbing at straws; the engine starts and idles with no issue and sometimes even revs past 1100 rpm with no issue but put it in gear and it hunts and misses badly. Whatever the cause, it seems to be deteriorating as it no longer clears readily so the car is now pretty much undrivable as the problem can occur anytime. The garage said that it did throw a tranny code the other day and were going to explore that as a potential source of the problem, I don't know the code number, should have asked them. I've asked them to explore the potential air leak from the bleeder cap, other than that everybody seems to be out of ideas which is very frustrating. Any fresh ideas are very welcome.

To recap, from cold, engine starts instantly and normally will idle evenly with no probs. Attempt to rev the motor and it struggles to rev past 1100 rpm, missing and coughing badly plus copious quantities of white smoke. Previously, messing with the throttle to get it past the 1100 rpm would eventually see the problem clear and the car would drive without any issues. Now once it clears it'll rev easily past 1100 with a slight miss apparent as it passes through 1100 rpm but revs out fine; put it into drive though and it gets ugly, misses badly and doesn't want to accelerate at all. All professionals that have looked at it have been unable to find any problems at all??
That’s not good.

Does the white smoke disappear after the engine warms up? I am coming back to colour again as exhaust colour on a Diesel engine can tell you what’s going on. White smoke is unburnt/raw diesel coming out the exhaust. It can also be water. I haven’t seen any mention of using any coolant or the water alarm activating for the fuel filter. Has the water alarm been checked for correct operation?

Unburnt fuel is caused by;
Faulty injectors,
Timing issue,
Compression issue.

Your injectors have been bench tested and passed. As another member has mentioned, timing could be out. I am unsure as to what these engines use for timing. It could very well be out. If the engine uses a tone wheel, they can wear the keyway slot which allows the wheel to rotate, which then rotates slightly, putting the timing out. Or it could be that it has somehow skipped as somebody else said. I would think the computer would be able to pick this up, but not necessarily. Going down this path, I would hazard a guess isn’t easy and would cost a bit of money.

Compression, has a compression test be done or a leak down test? An easy way could be to remove the oil filler cap and see if there is a huge amount of blow by. This could be messy and could cause the oil cap to pop off when doing it. Or you could try to disconnect the pcv hose. I am of the opinion that there is a troublesome ‘T’ piece that’s easy to break. I would suggest checking blow by at cold and also hot. This will then allow you to check for differences between the two.
Please excuse me if this comes across as though I am being condescending. Just a person trying to send you down the correct path with fault finding. It can be very difficult over the internet. I’m not a Diesel mechanic, I am/was a Marine Engineer working offshore for 20 years. I have been working on Diesels for a long time. The engines I am used to, don’t have all the gear on them that modern automotive/high speed diesels do. But more modern vessels are definitely going that way.
Hopefully I have been able to help you a little direction.

Cheers.
 

Old.Tony

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Hold on, it's a 550 ... V9X ...

Get underneath the car and look under the passenger footwell. Is there a large shielded part in the exhaust that has two electrical connections and two metal pipes that head up into the engine bay?

This is a DPF. These are bloody horrid devices, mine gave me SO much grief, and in the end all I had to do was replace the sensors front and rear - cost me about $600 from @auggie (a user on this forum).

But - if the DPF is firing like mad - that'd do it.

BTW, the V9X is supposed to have a 7th injector in the exhaust manifold. It would pay to either have that checked, or unplug it and see what happens. I've never tried that myself (I don't have a V9X, I bought my car two years too early and couldn't justify the cost difference for the fuel savings) but if that injector is leaking you'll definitely get some white smoke! Same for DPF operation, it floods the exhaust with so much fuel during an attempt to regen that it smokes (and stinks) badly.
 

Andyjo

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Guys, thx for the input. I doubt there can be much wrong with the engine given the amount of scrutiny it has undergone recently and the fact that when the issue clears or goes away the car runs fine and goes like the clappers.

I will definitely look into the DPF aspect, however I thought it'd throw a code if the DPF was giving problems? But when it is misbehaving and blowing heaps of white smoke it does STINK badly!! As you mentioned Old Tony.

Car is still at the injection garage in Welshpool, but I think they have thrown in the towel!! So I'll get the car home again and stick it up on the hoist to investigate the DPF angle. I will also get a new cap for the bleeder and change the fuel filter again.

The only other wrinkle was the tranny code it threw while at the garage, I've not seen that code appear before (and yet to know what code it was). It does seem unlikely that the tranny could cause this sort of problem although I have no idea how the engine and tranny interact with each other given the level of black magic electronics on these modern diesel vehicles.
 

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Hi, I may as well throw in my 2 bobs worth. Presume it is something simple. Disconnect the exhaust pipe at the manifold and see if the engine will rev freely, all the best TOM
 

Andyjo

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Thx all, problem may be solved, will know tomorrow. One question, does anybody know if there is a check valve in the fuel supply line from the filter to the tank? The current garage had conceded defeat! I asked them to replace the filter again. Yesterday started and ran fine, parked nose down. I suggested parking it nose up and try again this morning, ran like a robbers dog at that point they stopped it and ran a direct line from Jerry can to pump, started it and it ran perfect! Switched back to tank/filter supply, started it ran like a bag of sh*t again. Tried compressed air down the line to the tank, major blockage, blew the air line off their nozzle! Then a plonk sound and air blew freely (thus my check valve query). Runs fine now, tomorrow they'll test it again and if it behaves problem solved 😊
Apparently years ago "Iroman" long range tanks (don't know what brand mine is) had an issue with swarth left in the tank....
 

Andyjo

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Well my woes continue, turns out it was not a fuel delivery problem. I removed the tank and inspected the somewhat over engineered fuel pickup device in the tank, checked the line from filter to tank. Only issue I found was a crushed breather/ balance pipe between the high and low points on the tank. I replaced it, no other problems evident??
refitted the tank, bled it with the bulb pump (what a crappy idea!!).
While bleeding I never got to the point that there were zero air bubbles in the bulb pump tube, which is curious?? Perhaps air can be introduced via the bulb pump?? Any how car started as per normal idled no bother try to rev it and it stumbles at 1100 rpm same as before but perhaps worse now, I can get it to rev up pretty freely in neutral but put it in gear and load up the motor and it falters badly (see attached video), the problem no longer clears either.
I've got the manual and trying to work through understanding how the control systems work; ice block in hell comes to mind.
I'm running low on ideas now, nissan have checked it over and said everything appeared to be working correctly apart from it doesn't run properly! Injection garage removed and tested the injectors, all tip top, changed out the SCV, didn't deem a compression test to be necessary as it started and ran so well (once it came good). I've confirmed all is well down the tank end of the fuel system.
Next I will pursue the air in the bleeder, I'll replace the fuel lines to the filter with clear lines to see if there is any air entry problem, if no obvious issue I'll run a clear line to the fuel pump to see if there air entry from the valve that crosses to the fuel return circuit. if no joy I'll run a line directly from a jerry can to the pump.
Still no codes apart from the EGR P0488, is any one aware if the EGR could cause this sort of problem?
Any/all ideas are welcome. Assuming no joy from the above, next I'll check over the DPF (the smoke it belches out smells foul!!) then it may have to be a costa-a-lot ECM software update.....
 

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ericcs

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if you haven't checked yet, what type of primer do you have. is it a bulb under the filter like on the yd25?
if so, check that, as mine had a split, and kept dragging in air!
 

Andyjo

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Alas no, it has a stupid bulb pump that connects above the pump, once bled the bulb pump is removed and the cap replaced. So it sucks the fuel through unlike most systems that have a built in primer pump on the filter. So cant pressure up the suction side of the fuel pump.
 
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