D40 or D22?

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roswellj

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Hi guys,
I'm new to the Ute scene but I'm currently tossing up between a 2013-15 d40 or d22. Basically want something that will tow a caravan around Australia. Looking at under 100,000km and under $20,000. Obviously the d22 are a bit cheaper than the d40. Is it worth going for the d40 and paying that bit extra? Reading so many mixed things re: reliability and towing ability. Very confused.


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Czechmate

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I have an 07 d40 STX 2.5 litre diesel

D40 is obviously much larger and significantly more powerful than d22

D40 STX 3 litre diesel v6 is a brilliant bit of kit if you've got the $ to buy one

D40 STX models are built in spain not thailand like the rest of them, and are a very different car altogether, different steering and suspension. Actually a mechanical twin to the Pathfinder of the same age

I bought the d40 as i found the handling and suspension much better than other dual cabs

I drive a new ford ranger for work and I find it jiggly and twitchy compared to the d40, with less road feel through the steering wheel and so less enjoyable on the open road

For that reason i have no intention of ever selling the d40

Id like a diesel v6 but its not worth the effort of having to totally modify and customise another navara so ill run the 2.5 4 cyl into the ground then get a diesel v6 in years to come


The major thing to keep in mind here is timing chains, but if you're looking at 2013-15 models, the timing chain issues were rectified well before then
 

KevinE

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Out of those 2 choices, the D40 would be better at towing a caravan, but do you really need a Ute? Most of those who tow caravans with Utes tend to put a canopy on them anyway, so there goes the utility aspect.

An R51 Pathfinder has the same running gear as a D40 & will do everything a D40 will do with regard to towing & it has a better suspension set up.

I've owned a D22 with a canopy & my wife currently owns a 4x4 wagon. There is no comparison usability wise when towing a caravan on the black top. The wagon wins hands down.

Metal canopies fitted to metal trays work well if you have to have a Ute, but the general run of the mill canopies fitted to a tub are not user friendly for your proposed use IMO.

I've towed a caravan up to Arkaroola & back with my current D22 (no canopy). It towed it fine, but they don't handle heavy loads on the tow ball very well.
 

roswellj

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Out of those 2 choices, the D40 would be better at towing a caravan, but do you really need a Ute? Most of those who tow caravans with Utes tend to put a canopy on them anyway, so there goes the utility aspect.



An R51 Pathfinder has the same running gear as a D40 & will do everything a D40 will do with regard to towing & it has a better suspension set up.



I've owned a D22 with a canopy & my wife currently owns a 4x4 wagon. There is no comparison usability wise when towing a caravan on the black top. The wagon wins hands down.



Metal canopies fitted to metal trays work well if you have to have a Ute, but the general run of the mill canopies fitted to a tub are not user friendly for your proposed use IMO.



I've towed a caravan up to Arkaroola & back with my current D22 (no canopy). It towed it fine, but they don't handle heavy loads on the tow ball very well.
We did back and forth a bit on the wagon vs Ute scenario but we chose to go for a Ute in part because we do a lot of work around the house and want to be able to cart soil, gravel etc around and do a few tip runs each year. Plus we can chuck the BBQ etc in the back when we go camping and not have to worry about getting things messy. It's more of a lifestyle/convenience factor than anything else. There's only the two of us and we were getting around in a Yaris and an impreza before now so we've never needed a bit boot, we have needed a trailer many times though.
And yep we'll end up putting a canopy on or buying one with a canopy. I pretty much narrowed it down to the Nav mainly because of availability and price. Would love to spend another 10 grand and get something nicer/newer but honestly I'd rather spend more on a caravan and get a nicer van than the car given well end up living in it.
That being said.... Those new LDV T60's look mighty tempting at that price.... Seem mechanically sound too (maybe electrical not so much)

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Czechmate

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Dont think youll be chucking too much gravel in the back of a dual cab with a tub

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bods

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The main thing it comes down to is, how heavy is the van you have or plan to have? Auto gearboxes are a lot better suited to towing. The clutch in the d40 (If it hasn't been changed for an aftermarket one) has what they call a dual mass flywheel. They aren't designed to be slipped much at all as they overheat quickly and destroy the dampening springs inside them. They are supposed to remove some of the harshness from the engine into the gearbox and make a smoother and quieter drive. The d40 also has a 6 speed manual as opposed to the d22 5 speed, but even though the d22 has a standard solid flywheel, neither of them are easy to get moving when towing a decent weight, especially on hills.

Another thing to keep in mind is the d22 has manual freewheeling hubs and a transfer case stick as opposed to the d40 and r51 having full time locked front hubs and an electronic 4wd actuator system. Put simply, with the d22, you can put the transfer case in low range and leave the front hubs unlocked, which makes backing a trailer a lot easier and smoother. You don't have that luxury in a d40, but in saying that, if you're in the bush and haven't locked the front hubs in on the d22 and happen to come across a section that requires 4wd (like mud) you're going to get covered in crap when you get out to lock the hubs in... The advantage on the highway though is slightly less driveline drag as the front diff only turns over in the d22 when the transfer case is in 4wd or the hubs are locked in. The front diff in the d40 is turning all the time when you're moving, in 4wd or not.

Depending on where you plan on travelling will depend on how hard parts are to come across. The d22 has the same wheel stud pattern as landcruisers and patrols (different offset though) so if you broke a rim or ran out of spare tyres you could possibly borrow one from one of them to get you out of trouble. The d40 runs a different pattern (same as the new np300 though) so you wouldn't really have that option unless another vehicle the same happened to come along...

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KevinE

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Bods makes some really good points!

The only thing I'd agree to disagree with Bod's on is auto's being the better option to tow with. Unless they have a trans lock up kit installed, the Jatco auto boxes in the D40 & R51 will overheat towing heavy loads. And I don't know if there is even a trans lock up kit available for a Nissan?

(Hey Bods, didn't some of the D40 manual's come with a solid mass fly wheel?)

I think that you have a valid point about the utility aspect of owning a Ute roswellj, they are very handy to have for moving stuff about. But, (and I'm not sure if it applies where you live or not) here in SA it costs an additional $300 per year to register a Ute over a 4x4 wagon. That's a lot of day trailer hires per year!

I own my own business and have been happy to fork out the extra $300 a year in rego, to save me having to maintain a log book if I were using a non commercial vehicle. But that extra $300 a year is definitely something to consider, if it applies where you live.

I've looked at the LDV's too & you get a lot of Ute for the money, that's for sure. The downside being depreciation.

I'd seriously re consider a canopy on a tub for touring though. On a tray, they work, because of easy access. On a tub I found them to be a PITA (well, more a pain in the knees really, as I had to climb in & out of the tub to pack & unpack the canopy).

Good luck with your car shopping!
 

bods

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I probably should have clarified that point a bit more, haha. The auto box is a lot better for getting moving on hills, that's about the only advantage of it... From memory I have seen mention on here about an auto trans mob in Melbourne doing a new valve body for them, whether they are any better or not I couldn't say... As far as I know none of the manuals came from the factory with single mass flywheels.

As for the canopy on a tub, I was in the same boat as you, but have since picked up a cheap second hand one and taken the lift up side windows out and put them in mine. Heaps easier for getting near the front but I'd hate to pay the $400 odd each for them new from flexiglass (considering the whole second hand canopy was only $300 haha).

Plus I re sealed the side windows (still have to do the rear one) so they don't leak water in when it rains anymore...
 

roswellj

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Thanks for the advice guys.
As far as trany goes honestly I'm pretty happy either way. I understand that there were issues with slipping the clutch in the manual. I'm normally fairly gentle on my cars, the obvious fix would be to avoid stopping on hills while towing. Even if I got a second hand manual around 15-16k and had to replace the clutch at some point I'd still be well ahead of spending the 20k a ranger that's 5 years older with 100,000 more km would be asking me to spend.
As far as canopy's. The couple I've seen so far actually had opening side windows but I'd probably put sliding draws in the tub anyway for BBQ and fridge etc.

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As far as the SMF Clutch vs DMF goes, the RX (Thai) got the factory SMF in mid- 2012 - mine has one, and no clutch problems, now at 245,000 km.
Don't know if Spain-produced D40's ever got them.
Not a lot of towing, but max out the All-up weight sometimes.
 

Old.Tony

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We tow a 2.5T caravan a fair bit (2009 D40 auto) and have replaced the auto box at 320,000km but that was because we took it to Bob Hunt Automatics in Maitland and that's just the LAST thing anyone ought to do. The guy butchered the gearbox. We had a little vibration as the TCC was engaging and when measured, the TC was slipping a little more than it should. We were told a rebuild of the TC would fix it.


So, hand over the car with a "yeah just $500 to reco the TC plus fitting costs" and $3800 later I've got a gearbox that not only still has the same TC problem, but now it slams into second and third gear and feels like it's only a matter of time before it undergoes a rapid unscheduled disassembly. They also connected the transmission to the radiator - bad move, since we had (and they knew) external coolers and the radiator had been blocked off for a reason. Now, there's coolant in my transmission and my radiator is full of transmission oil.



If you are anywhere near Maitland, do NOT see them for your car.


Maitland Automatic Transmission Services (ATS) in Melbourne St said that a new valve body MIGHT fix the issue, but didn't promise that it would. They removed the old one, put in a new one, flushed the unit a couple of times to get the coolant out and had it reprogrammed by Maitland Nissan (ATS are not allowed to have the stuff to reprogram it, apparently). Maitland Nissan botched the reprogram and the TC was NOT fixed, but at least it went into and through the gears fairly smoothly.


So, stuff it, we put a second hand box in. That's what we should have done in the first place. Lesson learned.


Would I get a manual? No. With an external tranny cooler fitted (our Nav now has two in series), the gearbox does rather well, never giving us grief climbing hills like Thunderbolts Way or Kurrajong (Bells Line Of Road) although I do take extra care to slow down so that I don't overheat the motor.
 

ericcs

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So, stuff it, we put a second hand box in. That's what we should have done in the first place. Lesson learned.


Just out of curiosity Tony, do you know if the auto boxes are all the same across the D40 2.5l range, or did hey change in any way, say, when the 140kw engines arrived?

Have battled the dreaded T/C shudder for 200k now, so thinking about my options in the event of a replication your s##t fight!
 

Czechmate

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Hey peeps with a yd25 diesel auto

I have an 07 STX YD25 auto

I used to have the TC shudder at around 90-95 kph on the highway

I changed the auto trans fluid to Valvoline Maxlife and replace it every 20-30 000 Ks and havent felt the shudder in a long time now

I realise 20-30 000 ks is VERY frequent for an auto fluid change, but i noticed the nice bright red fluid was starting to brown after about 20000 ks
 

ericcs

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Hey peeps with a yd25 diesel auto

I have an 07 STX YD25 auto

I used to have the TC shudder at around 90-95 kph on the highway

I changed the auto trans fluid to Valvoline Maxlife and replace it every 20-30 000 Ks and havent felt the shudder in a long time now

I realise 20-30 000 ks is VERY frequent for an auto fluid change, but i noticed the nice bright red fluid was starting to brown after about 20000 ks
I had mine serviced only a couple of months ago, and while they said the oil was very dark, apparently inside the box was very clean. Anyway, i didn't help mine, but funny thing, least year it disappeared for a while for no reason, but it's back with vengeance!
 

roswellj

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So I've pretty much settled on a D40 after what you've all said. One question for you all though. Do all the d40's have a simplex primary timing chain or did they upgrade it to a duplex after a certain year? I seem to remember reading they did that but I can't find that info again.

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KevinE

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Hey peeps with a yd25 diesel auto

I have an 07 STX YD25 auto

I used to have the TC shudder at around 90-95 kph on the highway

I changed the auto trans fluid to Valvoline Maxlife and replace it every 20-30 000 Ks and havent felt the shudder in a long time now

I realise 20-30 000 ks is VERY frequent for an auto fluid change, but i noticed the nice bright red fluid was starting to brown after about 20000 ks
Wow! Do you tow with it? That's not a good life out of the trans oil.
 

Czechmate

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No towing, but big tyres, dusty roads (i live 7-8 kays into dirt roads) steep, hilly, windy terrain and its got probly 4-500 kgs of tools and shite in it at all times

At 20,000 its only just starting to lose the shiny red newness of fresh trans oil

If i left it till 40,000 it would be pretty much the colour of the background of this website

Im being pro-active because trans fluid is cheap but trans servicing and repairs is nasty amounts of cash

Also it stopped the TC shudder (i think) so why not
 

Old.Tony

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Just out of curiosity Tony, do you know if the auto boxes are all the same across the D40 2.5l range, or did hey change in any way, say, when the 140kw engines arrived?

Have battled the dreaded T/C shudder for 200k now, so thinking about my options in the event of a replication your s##t fight!

They are not the same, but they're very easy to identify.


On the side of the box (it's on the right hand side on mine) is a small metal tab with the gearbox model on it.


 

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ericcs

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thanks tony. did you get the T/C overhauled on the replacement box before you fitted it, or did you you use your old reco'd one?
 
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