D22 runs perfectly. stops and won't start until had a rest, then runs perfectly for 10-15ks please help

[slow learner]

Reaching out here to anyone who has had this fault or has the knowledge to help me keep the D22 running further than 10-15ks

Just driving at 100k and suddenly it was as if the fuel had been cut. as I started to pull over she leaped into life again. all dash lights on and just trucking as usual, 5ks later I pulled over and turned her off, she won't start. the battery was turning her and I could hear the fuel pump but no fire.

just left her and went home. returned six hours later and she started first time. drove her home

following day checked the battery and charged it over night, it was slightly low but took charge. checked the alternator and she was pumping out the Vs

figured I would change the diesel filter so went ahead and did that.

drove perfectly for 8ks when I returned to start her no good.... had her at Nissan and no fault can they find..... praying for an answer.

 

[Old.Tony]

Welcome to the forum.

I've no idea if your model has a Bosch VP44 fuel pump, they've been problematic in the past. But let's look at alternatives before going for the big ticket item! As always, we'll look at the free stuff first.

When the car won't start, stop cranking it and pop the bonnet and hit the primer. You should be able to squeeze it no more than 4-5 times before it becomes quite firm. If you can, keep squeezing it and look around the fuel lines for a leak - it may be sucking air.

If changing the diesel filter didn't change anything and there's no leaks in the system, it's possible that you've got something in the tank that is covering/blocking the fuel pickup. Unfortunately not the easiest of things to check.

Have someone drive behind you and observe the car while the problem manifests. Is there any smoke apparent when the car starts to stall? What colour? If black, it's overfuelling (or under-airing) and if white, it's overfuelling so much it can't burn the fuel. You should be able to smell diesel in the exhaust after the car's stalled if this is the case.

Fuel-air ratios are important. You need a certain amount of air to burn a particular amount of fuel. Increase the fuel a little and you get partial combustion. Reduce the air by a little and you get the same - partial combustion. These ratios are calculated based on throttle position, vehicle speed, engine load, air temperature - the car has sensors that provide this information and one might not be working properly. I've heard of the MAPS on the D22s not behaving 100% but before tossing yours and replacing it, you should just try disconnecting and reconnecting it, or even removing it and reinstalling it.

I wouldn't worry about the turbocharger, because even a fully failed turbo won't stop the engine from starting - enough air can slip past the impeller to allow a good start. And failed/failing turbos don't come good 15 minutes later and then fail a further 8 minutes down the road again.

I'd bet fuel pickup, or MAPS. I'll probably lose the bet now I've said it like that!

 

[tweak'e]

there is a chip in the vp44 injection pumps that can stop working with high temps. thats known to cause that sort of issue.
the other thing to check is to take off the fuel cap and see if any air sucks in. a block breather can cause tank vacuum as fuel is used which works against the injection pump.
also worth putting a clear fuel hose on to make sure its not sucking air into the lines.

 

[Horatius]

Which motor?
Unlikely to be a map sensor issue if it's zd30, you can disconnect the map sensor on these and they'll still run but gutless. Sounds like fuel issue, as in no fuel at all, intermittently.

 

[[email protected]]

try recomendations above , if it stops on you while travelling immediately check the fuel primer should be firm, if it takes multiple pumps to become firm then its sucking air or there its obstruction in tank or with too much vacuum in tank you would expect that it could come good after 1/2 an hour or more as air slowly comes back into tank
if it is primer is firm slacken off nut on inj nut if it doent squirt substantial amount of fuel while cranking fuel is being turned off by computer with no codes its a headacke good luck (may be bad connectors)

 

[slow learner]

Love you all.... Im gonna drive behind her today with tools ready and try each step

Horatius asked which motor. D22 3.0L TD


Ill be patient and persistant and report back to you blokes when more is learnt.

Thanks again.

 

[slow learner]

Ok, so were still moving. again upon stopping after a short 10min drive she won't start. Ive waited an hour and kept pumping the fuel filter, she tried then died, i waited then tried again and we were off and driving. replaced the rubber fuel lines for clear as per advise and bubbles appear to be coming from the engine side of that fuel filter?? feeling its all about fuel, or tank or lines yet no visible leaks. does this little video ring any bells with you guys..?

 

[slow learner]

that video appears to not want to open.... slow learner strikes again, but essentially it shows a clear fuel from the engine side of the fuel filter with lots of bubbles passing along as the fuel heads towards the engine...

 

[[email protected]]

(restriction in delivery line ????) if fuels going into primer with no air bubbes, comming out with air bubbles, change the assembly, you may have a pin hole in the the diaphram , or leaking o rings top and or bottom if its got water sensor

 

[[email protected]]

there seem to be some new cheap primer pumps on ebay or online auto parts

 

[slow learner]

brilliant, i will check those o rings, actually when i replaced the filter it did seem ever so slightly longer than the one I removed....

but I must remember that the stopping fault was occurring before the filter change and after so I can't discount the primer pump has a fault.

 

[Been a while]

What fuel filters are you using? Try a genuine one, I've had ryco etc leak air and diesel!

Fitting a pick up pump to the navs is the best bet, easily primed on filter changes and you'll spot any leaks or cracked hoses in a flash...

 

[Old.Tony]

I doubt that Nissan manufacture their own fuel filters, but I don't know if it's Ryco or someone else. I use Ryco myself and haven't had problems. One of my previous mechanics liked to use "Cooper" (which was cheap and made in China, but this was years ago and my car doesn't eat bats so there's no fear of my car having Covid). I didn't even have a problem with these.

What I have had a problem with is installation of the water sensor. When you install it, you're supposed to push it in and rotate it so that the electrical connector lines up directly with the knob above. This previous mechanic had twice installed a new filter and failed to do this, so I'd have a difficult start the following morning.

There have been a few reports of non-genuine filters causing issues but from memory they were all concerned with the O-ring in the centre (which is on the water sensor). Ensure that's seated properly and you should have little trouble.

The filter is not under any pressure. The pump sucks fuel down, which draws fuel up from the tank and through the filter medium. A leak (even a minor one) will only cause air to enter the system. This isn't good, because the fuel pump is sensitive (in a terminal, lack-of-lubrication-failure way) to a lack of fuel - diesel is used as a lubricant in the pump.

The video (it played for me?) shows air bubbles that appear to be coming from the device at the lowest part of the screen. If these are accumulating somewhere you could have a problem (there's a lot of them). Is there any indication of the actual source of those bubbles, and where might they be going? Are they going into the fuel pump and from there into the fuel rail? I'd stop that leak, pronto!

 

[slow learner]

Onwards we go, just not for long. So the fuel lines are good. always primed and she still always starts first time and sounds very healthy. has heaps of power and its great driving her for the 10km until it all stops.

Was buy the side of the road for 6 hours, waiting to see if i could time exactly how long before the restart would happen. on this occasion I flattened the battery and had to get towed home.

put the battery on charge over night and in the morning she started up like nothing had happened.

I removed the back seat thinking that I would see a fuel sender and part of the fuel pump located there..... Wrong, nothing there but kids toys and sand.

Now as Old Tony said its looking like the big ticket items!! priced a fuel pump at 4-5 thousand dollars?? yes $5000 dollars au.

reluctant to even imagine spending that on a pump of any kind. especially as this pump works fantastically for 10ks....

Have any of you got any other tricks, hacks, ideas or canny ways to approach this without going backwards to the tune of 5K.

 

[Old.Tony]

It's time to look at other things, I think.

I don't know why it takes several hours for it to be able to start again, unless it's a part that's overheating and seizing (possible pump) or it's something getting stuck on the fuel pickup in the tank and taking a while before it falls back off.

What I'd do (if it were my car) is get Torque running on my phone and ask it to graph throttle input, coolant temp, engine rpm and fuel rail pressure (you could ask for more, like vehicle speed, but I don't think that's needed). Drive it around until it fails, shut down Torque and save the data. Then I'd analyse it, to determine if we were looking at anything wrong with those.

If it comes to the pump being an issue, rather than a brand new pump I'd look at one from a wreck (because most cars don't have crashes because their fuel pumps fail). Can you confirm that it's a VP44 fuel pump?

 

[Boogieboots]

It's time to look at other things, I think.

I don't know why it takes several hours for it to be able to start again, unless it's a part that's overheating and seizing (possible pump) or it's something getting stuck on the fuel pickup in the tank and taking a while before it falls back off.

What I'd do (if it were my car) is get Torque running on my phone and ask it to graph throttle input, coolant temp, engine rpm and fuel rail pressure (you could ask for more, like vehicle speed, but I don't think that's needed). Drive it around until it fails, shut down Torque and save the data. Then I'd analyse it, to determine if we were looking at anything wrong with those.

If it comes to the pump being an issue, rather than a brand new pump I'd look at one from a wreck (because most cars don't have crashes because their fuel pumps fail). Can you confirm that it's a VP44 fuel pump?

I had this problem when I borrowed my dad's 924 years ago. I could drive for around 10 kms when it would starve for fuel, cough, sputter and die. After a 20 min or so wait it would go another 10kays. Man, that was a long drive from Esperance to Kalgoorlie Was grit suspended in the fuel which was slowly pegging up the in-tank strainer. It dropped away again after a short break but this sounds different. After a hour or so break it came good for the rest of the trip. Under heavy acceleration and breaking it stirred it up and started again. If you do a heap of these sort of manoeuvres and it happens more quickly it might be something similar going on.
If the car sits at idle for an extended period does it happen?

It will be a VP44 being a 3 litre, and the pump price sounds about right...
This means it will need an OBD2 style plug that runs Nissan consult to read the codes, not a regular OBD2 Bluetooth reader and unfortunately these are a pain in the arse to find

Slow learner, if you are in Perth I have a reader you can use to check for any codes that may be recorded

 

[slow learner]

Boogieboots really appreciate that offer. do i need an app like the one old Tony referenced? The Nissan dealer has found no fault codes but I would like to see that myself.... am keen to try anything. the next big question is how many ks from me are you....lol may take me months to get to you 10ks a time. Im near Malaga N of River.

 

[Boogieboots]

I am in Byford mate. I haven't used mine for a while but Torque didn't work last time I tried. I use the NDS1 app.
You can search " Nissan Data Scan" and they show how it works. There are some links to find the adaptor on their website, but as I said hard to track down. I will be off work from next Wednesday for 5 days so might be able to sort something out. I am likely to be heading out that way next week so you can PM me somehow on here and I imagine I will get a notification...
Otherwise I will keep an eye on this thread mate

 

[slow learner]

Still a really appreciated offer, Boogieboots, and may still require it. Last night after rereading all the replies im thinking I will fill a 20l plastic jerry can with Diesel, strap it upright in the tray and pipe it straight into the fuel filter. Nash about and see if she presents the same fault.

At least that should discount the possibility of the fault being in the tank as Boogieboots and Old Tony suggested.

Thought it would be worth letting the forum know incase the idea is flawed or I am missing something obviously foolish or worse dangerous by doing this........... Obviously I will be in full PPE would the jerry can be better in the back seat strapped into the kids seat.

 

[Horatius]

^ Not a bad idea, no doubt you've already thought of this but if you're going use the pre filter pipe as supply be aware it will still send excess fuel back to the fuel tank afaik. So you might run out of fuel quicker than expected if you don't run the return line into the fuel container also.