Caravan Towing.

[Rosscoturtle]

I recently purchased a caravan and am wondering if it is safe to tow it in fifth gear if able or should I only use fourth? It is a tandem axle low line van and I have an 09 D22 dual cab with Ute tray not a tub.

 

[tweak'e]

5th gear is fine

 

[Old.Tony]

I use 5th (overdrive) in mine. Admittedly a different torque curve, turbo and power output but the difference is really negligible. Always select a lower gear for hills (up or down). I try not to let it rev past about 3,000rpm.

Yes, now you know why I'm so slow going up Kurrajong hill!

 

[grumpy too]

I would stick to 4th gear personally but then I am not in a hurry and it just makes sense (to me) to use the direct drive but maybe these boxes are stronger than most and can handle it better.

 

[grumpy too]

Re the above posts, has anyone towing done a check on fuel consumption when towing as compared to just normal highway running.

The gearing for the d22 is not really optimal for towing in 4th but sitting on 85-90kmh is not really a problem for me especially when towing a heavier load but even then the revs are between 2.5k-and 3k which I also don't like, I wonder what the biggest tyres are for the D22?

Anybody know if there are different diff ratios available?

 

[Old.Tony]

My own fuel consumption (again, mine's a D40 and it's a 2009 model with 350,000km on the clock) sits around 12LPHK for normal use (mixed highway/city but mostly rural). Towing varies between 15.5LPHK on flat ground with speeds held to 85km/h at most, up to 26LPHK climbing hills and pushing to the speed limit. Our van is a family bunk van, 2550kg total trailer mass. The van (including air conditioning) is 3.2m tall and 6.8m long - 8.5m including drawbar and rear boxes.

 

[grumpy too]

Thanks for that, well if the d22 is similar I am going to need 200l of fuel at least, won't be as much weight in our van, it's rated at 2100kg but usually weighs about 1800kg in normal travel mode but am putting at least another 100l of water and it's a pop top so less wind drag.
Not sure what the GCM is on the d22 but will need to find out before loading the tray up too much.
By your figures when loaded thats not much better if any than the NPS 300 Isuzu which got 18-25 lphk when loaded but it was 9000kg + GCM when travelling and lots of wind drag which IMHO really kicks in when you get over 80kph, had to drive it in fifth gear as the gearing was terrible unless you put super singles on them but just never got around to it.

 

[joe2006]

My own fuel consumption (again, mine's a D40 and it's a 2009 model with 350,000km on the clock) sits around 12LPHK for normal use (mixed highway/city but mostly rural). Towing varies between 15.5LPHK on flat ground with speeds held to 85km/h at most, up to 26LPHK climbing hills and pushing to the speed limit. Our van is a family bunk van, 2550kg total trailer mass. The van (including air conditioning) is 3.2m tall and 6.8m long - 8.5m including drawbar and rear boxes.

 

[joe2006]

Haha, I got ours to almost 30lph on the flat into a stiff headwind between Winton and Hughenden and was lucky to get to 80kph. Broken record but the lack of lock-up in 4th is a killer for fuel consumption I would have hated to know the trans temp.
Certainly one (or is that two?) advantage/s to a manual.

Not sure why the quote is separated from my reply?

 

[pol327]

Hi rosscoturtle as an answer to your original question.
My thoughts as I have repaired a number of these gearboxes with 5th gear failure.
Be careful that when towing in 5th gear (D22 manual) that you do not labor or load the engine in an effort reduce the revs and hopefully save fuel. This can cause the premature failure of 5th gear.
Towing (dependent on weight) is generally best in 4th gear as it is a 1:1 drive ratio and copes with the load better. When towing a light weight or coasting or on down hill runs then select 5th gear. If you need to use reasonable throttle to keep your speed up then use 4th gear.

My own driver is a D40 6 speed manual. I only use 6th gear if driving at over 80 kph unloaded. If towing a trailer (again depending on the trailer weight) I use 4th or 5th dependant on road grade and only 6th if on a decline.

D22 ST-R 4X4 Tare Mass is 1842 kg : Carry Capacity is 1018 kg : GVM is tare mass plus carry capacity : Trailer with Brakes 2800 kg
Tare mass (or kerb weight) is the vehicles weight as it came from the factory with 10 liters of fuel. ANY additional accessories reduces the vehicles carry capacity and effects the total GCM

Cheers .... Pete

 

[Rosscoturtle]

Hi rosscoturtle as an answer to your original question.
My thoughts as I have repaired a number of these gearboxes with 5th gear failure.
Be careful that when towing in 5th gear (D22 manual) that you do not labor or load the engine in an effort reduce the revs and hopefully save fuel. This can cause the premature failure of 5th gear.
Towing (dependent on weight) is generally best in 4th gear as it is a 1:1 drive ratio and copes with the load better. When towing a light weight or coasting or on down hill runs then select 5th gear. If you need to use reasonable throttle to keep your speed up then use 4th gear.

My own driver is a D40 6 speed manual. I only use 6th gear if driving at over 80 kph unloaded. If towing a trailer (again depending on the trailer weight) I use 4th or 5th dependant on road grade and only 6th if on a decline.

D22 ST-R 4X4 Tare Mass is 1842 kg : Carry Capacity is 1018 kg : GVM is tare mass plus carry capacity : Trailer with Brakes 2800 kg
Tare mass (or kerb weight) is the vehicles weight as it came from the factory with 10 liters of fuel. ANY additional accessories reduces the vehicles carry capacity and effects the total GCM

Cheers .... Pete

Thanks very very much for that information. It was exactly what I was looking for. Cheers.

 

[tweak'e]

the whole thing of wearing out 5th gear comes from the old days when 5th gear was kinda of an addon. it was small and weak, often side mounted.
thats not an issue these days. 5th gear is just another gear.

also these do not have the gearbox problems of the D21 which used to flog out 5th gear when towing. thats more to do with oil issues.

our d22's have done several hundred km's fully loaded, towing big loads. worked hard. no gearbox issues.
even with the D23, towing in 6th gear is not an issue.

 

[grumpy too]

Hi rosscoturtle as an answer to your original question.
My thoughts as I have repaired a number of these gearboxes with 5th gear failure.
Be careful that when towing in 5th gear (D22 manual) that you do not labor or load the engine in an effort reduce the revs and hopefully save fuel. This can cause the premature failure of 5th gear.
Towing (dependent on weight) is generally best in 4th gear as it is a 1:1 drive ratio and copes with the load better. When towing a light weight or coasting or on down hill runs then select 5th gear. If you need to use reasonable throttle to keep your speed up then use 4th gear.

My own driver is a D40 6 speed manual. I only use 6th gear if driving at over 80 kph unloaded. If towing a trailer (again depending on the trailer weight) I use 4th or 5th dependant on road grade and only 6th if on a decline.

D22 ST-R 4X4 Tare Mass is 1842 kg : Carry Capacity is 1018 kg : GVM is tare mass plus carry capacity : Trailer with Brakes 2800 kg
Tare mass (or kerb weight) is the vehicles weight as it came from the factory with 10 liters of fuel. ANY additional accessories reduces the vehicles carry capacity and effects the total GCM

Cheers .... Pete

I'll stick to your advice on towing in 4th gear because I am old but not very fashionable and a 1.1 ratio sounds better for heavy loads, the less gears the better.
Re the GCM how do you work that out? have seen it at 5660 on another site less 10% for towball weight which I don't understand as the nissan tables say for 250kg towball weight you only reduce the GVM by 170kg? also regarding the GCM that towball weight irrespective of how it's worked out is still part of the overall GCM, re the towing capacity I have two Nissan tray towbars off a 2008 (JNI) and a 2011 (MNT) that are 3000kg one is super heavy and one lighter build the same as the 2008 bar which is off a tub (MNT) vehicle, is the towing capacity still 2800kg for all, I presumed the lesser rating was due to the tub bar protruding 100mm further out from chassis.
I only need 2100kg max for van and it will normally be 1800kg but will need max load on tray for extra wheel and water and fuel tanks plus all the BS I usually end up carrying although tanks are not likely to be fully loaded anywhere near a weighing station

 

[tweak'e]

GCM is whatever nissan says it is. no working out required.

what load you can take on the ute while towing is a different ball game.
thats GCM minus the trailer weight (and load), then minus the 170kg (derating due to towing), then minus the tare weight of the ute.
with a lot of these newer utes that are rated at 3500kg towing capacities, that leaves very little if any load in the ute including driver. the 3500kg tow rating is just marketing BS.

to be legal you often looking at a 3000kg trailer and small load on the ute.
with D22 i would stick to max towing of 2500kg.

 

[grumpy too]

"GCM is whatever nissan says it is. no working out required."
OK so what do nissan say it is? as I can't find it, I would assume it is tare + carry capacity = GVM + towing weight but my Nissan towbars are rated at 3000kg not 2800 so how do I find out what is correct? as I said above the tub type towbars are 2800 but the tray or cab/chassis appear to be all 3000kg?
Not wanting to appear pedantic but I would assume the GCM is the total combined weight when towing the towball weight whatever it is should be just a part of that actual total ie ute GVM + towball + trailer, I would read the towball weight would be part of and subtracted from the GVM of the ute, why Nissan uses this derating factor I have no idea.
I will be using a WDH but IMHO think the GVM should be what it is on a weigh bridge and try to adjust so weight is distributed as per front and rear axle ratings but these utes have a good rear rating anyway (1800kg) unlike some but even those two ratings are higher than the GVM so a bit of leeway.
Much rather get it into my head now what is correct than find out it's wrong on the road.
In my case my trailer load should allow a full load on the truck but only a weigh bridge will tell that story with accessories and load at actual travelling weights.
IMHO probably 90%+ of towing rigs are actually overloaded on the tow vehicle, trailer or both and they are starting to address this now but the formula needs to be practical and transparent so people can comply, if they don't want to thats between them, the police etc and the insurance company if something goes wrong.
Sorry to sidetrack thread Roscoturtle but probably relevant if you are towing anyway.

 

[tweak'e]

i can't find gcm at the mo.
i did see some D22's where 3000kg towing and some 2800kg.
our rules here are a bit different and it doesn't matter so much what the tow bar says.

frankly with zd30 engine i would stick with towing 2500kg max. it was bad enough having to do low range starts to get out of some places.

and yes many towing setups are overloaded. police here rarely ever check, unless your in a big nasty accident. otherwise the only one that will check is the insurance company.

 

[pol327]

The figures that I quoted in my post a few back are from a Nissan Specifications document.
The figures quoted below are for a Nissan Navara D22 ST-R Dual cab 4x4 2.5 liter. From the Nissan Motor Company Australia

Tare Mass (Kerb weight) is 1842 kg. Unladen mass of the vehicle with 10 litres of fuel (no other additions, no driver, as standard, dead stock.)
Carry capacity is 1018 kg. This weight is reduced by everything added to the vehicle. This includes the driver, fuel, plus the addition of anything extra fitted on or into the vehicle including the floor mats (yes that means the wife and the dog too).
Gross Vehicle Mass GVM is 2860 kg. This is tare mass 1842 kg plus carry capacity 1018 kg.
Braked towing capacity is 2800 kg
Gross combined mass GCM is 5660 kg. This is the GVM plus the maximum Braked towing capacity.

The carry capacity figure of 1018 kg is reduced by the weight of every single addition i.e. suspension changes, tow bar, bull bar, extra batteries, heavier tyres, spotties, roof racks, awnings, long range fuel tanks and including the floor mats, these all have a mass or weight and this detracts from the carry capacity.
The addition of the extras as above can increase the tare mass by 500 kg therefore halving the carry capacity down to 500 kgs

As grumpy too says get it right before you hook up and take off. Fill your car with fuel, put the wife in front and your dog in the back (or visa versa). Put everything you intend to carry in and on the car, in it and on it, then drive it down to your local weigh bridge.
If the car weighs over 2860 kg then you have problems. If you intend to tow a caravan then you definitely have problems. The loaded weighed vehicle has to be lighter equivalent to your tow ball down load weight if you are towing.

The reduction of the GVM for tow ball down load is simply making adjustments to carry capacity given it adds to the tare mass.

Tow ball down load Loaded Vehicle Mass for D22 ST-R Dual cab 4x4
80 kg no change to GVM
150 kg Reduced loaded vehicle mass below GVM by 70 kg
200 kg Reduced loaded vehicle mass below GVM by 125 kg
250 kg Reduced loaded vehicle mass below GVM by 170 kg

NOTE : The above figures are for a suitably rated Toyota tow bar accessory. If you have an aftermarket tow bar use that manufactures recommended tow ball down load weights

This all comes from been there and done that more than a few times. And now I am doing it all over again for my brothers D40 4x4

 

[pol327]

Brain fade .... Nissan towbar NOT Toyota.

 

[Rainbow Warrior]

I have the NP300 and tow our van in the highest gear possible, usually 5th or 6th ,I’m getting 26mpg towing our 1740kg van ,

 

[grumpy too]

Gross Vehicle Mass GVM is 2860 kg. This is tare mass 1842 kg plus carry capacity 1018 kg.
Braked towing capacity is 2800 kg
Gross combined mass GCM is 5660 kg. This is the GVM plus the maximum Braked towing capacity.

I might be wrong but believe the 2800kg towbar is for the dual cab tub which sets the towbar out from the chassis about 100mm further than the cab chassis no idea about single cabs, it doesn't really matter to me as the van is way under 2800kg so the GVM figure is what I need to worry about but be interesting to know if the cab chassis models do have an extra 200kg GCM as per the Nissan towbar rating.
As I mentioned previously one of the 3000kg towbars is much heavier (90mm bar and heavier brackets ) but the other is the same as the light 2800kg bar.